On 1 September 2013 23:18, Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrov...@gmail.com>wrote:
> On 9/1/13, Manu <turkey...@gmail.com> wrote: > > ** If you want to link against any other libraries. > > Only if you want to do it statically, but you don't need to mess with > COFF for DLLs, most of these libs you've listed can build either > statically or as a DLL. > You mean dynamically loading DLL's, and finding/hooking up the symbols manually? On 9/1/13, Manu <turkey...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Most of who? The D devs? You all reject auto-complete and debuggers? > > How do you get any work done? > > Well, we do get things done: > > http://www.ohloh.net/p/dmd/commits/summary > http://www.ohloh.net/p/libphobos/commits/summary I was joking. On 9/1/13, Manu <turkey...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>> - Deprecate DMD makefiles. Seriously! Insist that contributors use > the > >>> IDE bindings to work on DMD. > >> > >> Not gonna happen. > >> > > > > Reconsider. > > How is deprecating makefiles easier than making whatever IDE that > you're using just call a 'make' command when you click a button? Even > VS comes with nmake and friends. > It's basically a hack though. It interferes with the dependency chain, and rebuild efficiency. Has some other weird side-effects too. But even it it did to that, the experience that they would be confronted with is broken auto-completion, and debugging issues. It's pretty shit that it stands to end-users to report bugs of this kind, when the devs working with this code every single day could catch loads/most of the common ones themselves just by working in the end-user environment for a while. On 9/1/13, Manu <turkey...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Slowing us down won't help anyone. > > > > I'd argue that it would; inflicting the pain of trying to be a > productive D > > user on the developers will certainly highlight the importance of the > > issue. > > It would only make people leave the community, just like Tomasz > Stachowiak (h3r3tic) left, and now I've learned Michel Fortin is also > not using D anymore. > I think this argues my point for me... This stuff should be top priority! Anyway it's not like we're not aware of the issues, these things are > brought up in the newsgroups every other day. But the only way to fix > the situation is: file bugs, contribute with pull requests. > Or enforce that the devs actually experience the end-user experience. Then they'll know what the problems actually are, have a realistic perspective of their productivity impact, and might take them more seriously. I think it would have a tendency to change the perceived priority. On 9/1/13, Manu <turkey...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I'm really don't like bugzilla as an end-user, but I'm not performing > > searching actions. > > As a reporter, I find it's needless friction between me and reporting > bugs, > > and I consequently report perhaps half as many bugs as I would otherwise, > > See I don't understand this. You want everyone to work on the things > you're most interested in (IDEs), but you can't bother reporting bugs. > I'm just saying it how it is, or at least, how it was perceived in this instance by a room full of new D users, all professionals, mostly senior or lead programmers with some sway in their companies. None of the others could be bothered creating yet-another-webpage-account to log bugs they encountered. I suggested they do so a few times. I was promptly ignored. It's just that manually logging in to non-ajax websites is so last decade. People are growing very weary of creating and managing accounts on every website they visit. I definitely feel this is a worthwhile weekend's experience to share. Take it or leave it. > Are you saying I should have told everyone to set up their machines before > > coming? > > Well look, you've obviously used D in a 64bit environment (so you've > had to set this up yourself at least once), so I don't understand how > you've managed to lose 6 hours on it. :) > Actually, previous times I've used it, it did 'just work'. This time it didn't. I was surprised (and a tad embarrassed). About 6 hours was lost trying to work out what the problems were, then configuring it on everyones machines, then making sure everyone had Visual-D, link issues against the libs we were using, some issues with the particular version of the MS CRT that DMD seemed to really want to link and external libs wanting a different CRT (I couldn't find how to configure it for other CRT's), then Mono-D on the non-windows machines, then OSX issues; GDC was the first compiler that user found, Mono-D had problems, eventually gave up and switched to DMD... trying to convince people that it would be better in the long run ;) It's definitely not a 1-click install and get to work.
