On 29-12-2011 12:19, Vladimir Panteleev wrote:
On Thursday, 29 December 2011 at 09:16:23 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:Are you a ridiculous hacker? Inline x86 assembly that the compiler actually understands in 32 AND 64 bit code, hex string literals like x"DE ADB EEF" where spacing doesn't matter, the ability to set data alignment cross-platform with type.alignof = 16, load your shellcode verbatim into a string like so: auto str = import("shellcode.txt");I would like to talk about this for a bit. Personally, I think D's system programming abilities are only half-way there. Note that I am not talking about use cases in high-level application code, but rather low-level, widely-used framework code, where every bit of performance matters (for example: memory copy routines, string builders, garbage collectors). In-line assembler as part of the language is certainly neat, and in fact coming from Delphi to C++ I was surprised to learn that C++ implementations adopted different syntax for asm blocks. However, compared to some C++ compilers, it has severe limitations and is D's only trick in this alley. For one thing, there is no way to force the compiler to inline a function (like __forceinline / __attribute((always_inline)) ). This is fine for high-level code (where users are best left with PGO and "the compiler knows best"), but sucks if you need a guarantee that the function must be inlined. The guarantee isn't just about inlining heuristics, but also implementation capabilities. For example, some implementations might not be able to inline functions that use certain language features, and your code's performance could demand that such a short function must be inlined. One example of this is inlining functions containing asm blocks - IIRC DMD does not support this. The compiler should fail the build if it can't inline a function tagged with @forceinline, instead of shrugging it off and failing silently, forcing users to check the disassembly every time. You may have noticed that GCC has some ridiculously complicated assembler facilities. However, they also open the way to the possibilities of writing optimal code - for example, creating custom calling conventions, or inlining assembler functions without restricting the caller's register allocation with a predetermined calling convention. In contrast, DMD is very conservative when it comes to mixing D and assembler. One time I found that putting an asm block in a function turned what were single instructions into blocks of 6 instructions each. D's lacking in this area makes it impossible to create language features that are on the level of D's compiler built-ins. For example, I have tested three memcpy implementations recently, but none of them could beat DMD's standard array slice copy (despite that in release mode it compiles to a simple memcpy call). Why? Because the overhead of using a custom memcpy routine negated its performance gains. This might have been alleviated with the presence of sane macros, but no such luck. String mixins are not the answer: trying to translate macro-heavy C code to D using string mixins is string escape hell, and we're back to the level of shell scripts. We've discussed this topic on IRC recently. From what I understood, Andrei thinks improvements in this area are not "impactful" enough, which I find worrisome. Personally, I don't think D qualifies as a true "system programming language" in light of the above. It's more of a compiled language with pointers and assembler. Before you disagree with any of the above, first (for starters) I'd like to invite you to translate Daniel Vik's C memcpy implementation to D: http://www.danielvik.com/2010/02/fast-memcpy-in-c.html . It doesn't even use inline assembler or compiler intrinsics.
+1. D needs a way to force inlining. The compiler can, at best, do heuristics. If D wants to cater to systems programmers -- that is, programmers who *know their shit* -- it needs advanced features like this. Same reason we have __gshared, for example.
- Alex
