The problem is with your receiver design, which was designed for SSB and CW
using AGC to keep the audio output level more or less constant with RF input
and prevent "blasting" by strong signals when listening to weak signals.
It is not necessary to "listen" to digital modes, since they are basically
visual modes. I removed the AGC in the latest production run of the PSK20 so
there is no AGC capture or overload over an input range of about 60 dB. One
can argue that a 60 dB dynamic range is not enough, but I have not yet
encountered a signal that overloaded the PSK-20 or the soundcard, but I am
sure I would during Field Day with transmitters nearby. However, for typical
operating, there is no overload problem, and no AGC capture either. The gain
of the IF stage was compensated for by using more gain in the audio chain.
This would not work with the typical receiver designed for SSB and CW,
because the gain needs to be in the IF for AGC action, and not as much in
the audio as in the PSK-20. As has been mentioned, disabling the AGC is
going to result in overdriving the final IF amplifiers to distortion, so
that is not a solution.
The only solution for current receivers is narrow filtering (when needed),
but if a signal gets within the IF passband of the narrow filter it is going
to capture the AGC anyway unless careful tuning, or passband tuning, or IF
shift, can move the strong signal and dump it off the filter slope and still
copy the weak signal. In any event, there is no substitute for a narrow
filter of some kind in such situations, but it is usually possible to
operate most of the time with the SSB filter as most of you already know.
Perhaps some day the other receiver manufacturers will take digital modes
into consideration in their receiver design. I have read that a dual-loop
AGC system helps prevent AGC capture, but I have not tried it.
The reason that some people have no problem with AGC capture and others do
is that the receivers and antenna gains are not the same for everyone, so
everyone is "right"! ;-)
73, Skip
KH6TY
----- Original Message -----
From: <digitalradio@yahoogroups.com>
To: <digitalradio@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 8:39 AM
Subject: [digitalradio] Digest Number 2284
There are 18 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: narrow filters/PSK
From: Roger J. Buffington
1b. Re: narrow filters/PSK
From: John Bradley
1c. Re: narrow filters/PSK
From: Dave Corio
1d. Re: narrow filters/PSK
From: Roger J. Buffington
1e. Re: narrow filters/PSK
From: Roger J. Buffington
1f. Re: narrow filters/PSK
From: Danny Douglas
1g. Re: narrow filters/PSK
From: Roger J. Buffington
1h. Re: narrow filters/PSK
From: kv9u
1i. Re: narrow filters/PSK
From: Rein Couperus
2a. Re: 3580kHz-3600kHz Freq Coordination Info
From: Roger J. Buffington
2b. Re: 3580kHz-3600kHz Freq Coordination Info
From: kv9u
3a. Re: Narrow?
From: expeditionradio
3b. Re: Narrow?
From: Danny Douglas
3c. Re: Narrow?
From: expeditionradio
3d. Re: Narrow?
From: Andrew O'Brien
3e. Re: Narrow?
From: Danny Douglas
3f. Re[2]: [digitalradio] Re: Narrow?
From: Flavio Padovani
4. Re: 3580kHz-3600kHz Freq Coordination Info
From: Box SisteenHundred
Messages
________________________________________________________________________
1a. Re: narrow filters/PSK
Posted by: "Roger J. Buffington" [EMAIL PROTECTED] w6vzv
Date: Wed Mar 7, 2007 6:05 pm ((PST))
Rein Couperus wrote:
> We generally use 300 Hz filters for PSK125 and they are too wide.
> There is no substitute for good narrow Xtal filters. I don't
> understand how you can try to work PSK31 (50 Hz bandwidth) with a 2.7
> kHz filter. That is against all logic (and math).
>
> We recommand using the narrowest filters you can get for pskmail.
> That is the only way to fight Pactor QRM. It helps to use the
> passband shift and use the sweet spot of the rig at 1500 Hz (we use
> an Icom 756). Our PI4TUE server has good performance with that,
> provided you get the filter as narrow as possible (this is for
> PSK125, which is 4x the bandwidth of PSK31...). A 250 Hz Xtal filter
> is wide enough for PSK125.
>
> 73,
>
> Rein EA/PA0R/P
Rein, you are right as rain! :-) Most Yaesu rigs have a digital
passband center freq of 1000hz, but otherwise everything you say above
is right on the money.
de Roger W6VZV
Messages in this topic (22)
________________________________________________________________________
1b. Re: narrow filters/PSK
Posted by: "John Bradley" [EMAIL PROTECTED] ve5mu_sk
Date: Wed Mar 7, 2007 6:16 pm ((PST))
using my TS480SAT with both CW filters, can get really narrow on PSK and
still copy.
don't know much about the IC746. can you menu select cw filters for
ssb(digital) reception on USB? or do they only work in CW?
John
VE5MU
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave
To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 12:42 PM
Subject: [digitalradio] narrow filters/PSK
Has anyone tried using either a 250 Hz or 500 Hz filter for PSK31
reception? My Icom IC-746 (non-Pro) has no filters installed, and is
wide as a barn door on USB for PSK31. I wondered if either of these
filters would help, or would they be too narrow?
The pass-band shift does a fair job of eliminating QRM from one side
or the other of the selected frequency, but when there are two very
strong signals within 2 Khz on each side at the same time, they just
aren't effective on both.
Any input appreciated!
Thanks in advance es 73
Dave
KB3MOW
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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9:24 AM
Messages in this topic (22)
________________________________________________________________________
1c. Re: narrow filters/PSK
Posted by: "Dave Corio" [EMAIL PROTECTED] n0hnj
Date: Wed Mar 7, 2007 6:25 pm ((PST))
The 746 allows you to select any filter for any mode, thank goodness!!
73
Dave
KB3MOW
John Bradley wrote:
>
> using my TS480SAT with both CW filters, can get really narrow on PSK
> and still copy.
>
>
> don't know much about the IC746. can you menu select cw filters for
> ssb(digital) reception on USB? or do they only work in CW?
>
> John
> VE5MU
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Dave <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> *To:* digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:digitalradio@yahoogroups.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 07, 2007 12:42 PM
> *Subject:* [digitalradio] narrow filters/PSK
>
> Has anyone tried using either a 250 Hz or 500 Hz filter for PSK31
> reception? My Icom IC-746 (non-Pro) has no filters installed, and is
> wide as a barn door on USB for PSK31. I wondered if either of these
> filters would help, or would they be too narrow?
>
> The pass-band shift does a fair job of eliminating QRM from one side
> or the other of the selected frequency, but when there are two very
> strong signals within 2 Khz on each side at the same time, they just
> aren't effective on both.
>
> Any input appreciated!
>
> Thanks in advance es 73
> Dave
> KB3MOW
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.7/713 - Release Date:
> 3/7/2007 9:24 AM
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.7/713 - Release Date: 3/7/2007
> 9:24 AM
>
Messages in this topic (22)
________________________________________________________________________
1d. Re: narrow filters/PSK
Posted by: "Roger J. Buffington" [EMAIL PROTECTED] w6vzv
Date: Wed Mar 7, 2007 6:44 pm ((PST))
Danny Douglas wrote:
>
> I have a hard time visualizing the need for a narrow filter, for such
> narrow modes. You can sit, in PSK for instance, slap up against
> another PSK signal and still copy much weaker signals. Thats the
> whole purpose of the narrow band digital modes to start with. I use
> WinWarbler (now) to do my digital transmission in both PSK and RTTY,
> and when I want to do something like Olivia or MFSK etc. I go to
> MixW. I particularly like WinWarbler because it has the wide band
> copy ability in PSK. I.E it will automatically copy (and show all the
> channels) in a 2 or 3 KC bandwidth - at the same time. Using a narrow
> filter in there would completely negate that fantistic capability.
>
> I have never had to use my narrow filters in order to copy a digital
> signal, and yes I have played with them to see what difference it
> made. Todays rigs, with their dsp filtering just seem to bypass any
> need at all for additional filters for digital operation, though I do
> see the need for CW filters, and have 250 and 270 cy fliters in my
> two rigs because I use my ears, and not the computer to detect and
> read that mode.
Not meaning to be argumentative, but I believe most of the above to be
objectively untrue from a technical standpoint. A strong adjacent PSK31
signal inside the passband will desensitize any rig's receiver by
activating the AGC such that if you try to receive a weaker adjacent
signal, you will be unsuccessful. If you disable the AGC often the
stronger signal will simply overload the receiver. IF filtering is
essential for preventing this, and countless times filtering has made
the difference between good copy and no copy. DSP filters are only
helpful if they are in the IF, preventing AGC action by signals outside
the passband. Software solutions, such as those in MixW or PSK Deluxe,
cannot affect the rig's AGC action and are no substitute for good IF
filtering.
de Roger, W6VZV
Messages in this topic (22)
________________________________________________________________________
1e. Re: narrow filters/PSK
Posted by: "Roger J. Buffington" [EMAIL PROTECTED] w6vzv
Date: Wed Mar 7, 2007 6:59 pm ((PST))
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I don't know all the capabilities of my rig ft-897 and psk31 but the
> other day I had a what appeared to be a 100 watt plus psk31 station
> that basically with AGC reduced the signal reaching my computer so
> much that I couldn't copy almost any station never mind weak
> stations.
>
> Is there a way with the FT-897 to eliminate those real strong signals
> to focus on weaker ones?
Yes, there is a 300hz filter available for the FT897 which is fabulous
for use on the digital modes. I have one in mine and it works VFB. The
500hz filter is a decent alternative, but I went with the 300hz filter
and have been pleased.
de Roger W6VZV
Messages in this topic (22)
________________________________________________________________________
1f. Re: narrow filters/PSK
Posted by: "Danny Douglas" [EMAIL PROTECTED] n7dc
Date: Wed Mar 7, 2007 7:18 pm ((PST))
I am simply saying that I have not had to use such techniques or filters
since I started using PSK. I have worked 133 countries in the mode, using
my SSB filters, and have yet to have even a nearby signal block out one of
them so badly I couldnt copy it. Maybe its my TS570s, my software, my
location, etc. I dont know. All I know is that it works. Using broadband
copy, I often see 15 or 20 stations being printed out across the band at any
given time. Once in a while, someone doesnt know how to limit his power, or
how to turn it down so that he has no ALC showing on his meter, and he sends
out so many spurs that the broadband can copy him in a dozen places up and
down from his normal signal, but even that main signal isnt so strong it
disturbs other signals within just a few cycles of it. True, a narrow
filter would filter those out, as well as any other signas between them, and
make the broadband copy capability useless. It would also disallow the MixW
software to have all three of its copy channels/windows operational as
well - it doesnt have true broadband copy, but you can set all three windows
to copy anywhere across the sound cards passband.
Danny Douglas N7DC
ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA
SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB all
DX 2-6 years each
.
QSL LOTW-buro- direct
As courtesy I upload to eQSL but if you
use that - also pls upload to LOTW
or hard card.
moderator [EMAIL PROTECTED]
moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalkK
Danny Douglas N7DC
ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA
SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB all
DX 2-6 years each
.
QSL LOTW-buro- direct
As courtesy I upload to eQSL but if you
use that - also pls upload to LOTW
or hard card.
moderator [EMAIL PROTECTED]
moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger J. Buffington" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <digitalradio@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 9:03 PM
Subject: Re: [digitalradio] narrow filters/PSK
> Danny Douglas wrote:
> >
> > I have a hard time visualizing the need for a narrow filter, for such
> > narrow modes. You can sit, in PSK for instance, slap up against
> > another PSK signal and still copy much weaker signals. Thats the
> > whole purpose of the narrow band digital modes to start with. I use
> > WinWarbler (now) to do my digital transmission in both PSK and RTTY,
> > and when I want to do something like Olivia or MFSK etc. I go to
> > MixW. I particularly like WinWarbler because it has the wide band
> > copy ability in PSK. I.E it will automatically copy (and show all the
> > channels) in a 2 or 3 KC bandwidth - at the same time. Using a narrow
> > filter in there would completely negate that fantistic capability.
> >
> > I have never had to use my narrow filters in order to copy a digital
> > signal, and yes I have played with them to see what difference it
> > made. Todays rigs, with their dsp filtering just seem to bypass any
> > need at all for additional filters for digital operation, though I do
> > see the need for CW filters, and have 250 and 270 cy fliters in my
> > two rigs because I use my ears, and not the computer to detect and
> > read that mode.
>
> Not meaning to be argumentative, but I believe most of the above to be
> objectively untrue from a technical standpoint. A strong adjacent PSK31
> signal inside the passband will desensitize any rig's receiver by
> activating the AGC such that if you try to receive a weaker adjacent
> signal, you will be unsuccessful. If you disable the AGC often the
> stronger signal will simply overload the receiver. IF filtering is
> essential for preventing this, and countless times filtering has made
> the difference between good copy and no copy. DSP filters are only
> helpful if they are in the IF, preventing AGC action by signals outside
> the passband. Software solutions, such as those in MixW or PSK Deluxe,
> cannot affect the rig's AGC action and are no substitute for good IF
> filtering.
>
> de Roger, W6VZV
>
>
>
>
>
> Announce your digital presence via our DX Cluster
telnet://cluster.dynalias.org
>
> Our other groups:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dxlist/
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/contesting
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wnyar
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Omnibus97
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.7/713 - Release Date: 3/7/2007
9:24 AM
>
>
Messages in this topic (22)
________________________________________________________________________
1g. Re: narrow filters/PSK
Posted by: "Roger J. Buffington" [EMAIL PROTECTED] w6vzv
Date: Wed Mar 7, 2007 8:09 pm ((PST))
Dave wrote:
>
> Has anyone tried using either a 250 Hz or 500 Hz filter for PSK31
> reception? My Icom IC-746 (non-Pro) has no filters installed, and is
> wide as a barn door on USB for PSK31. I wondered if either of these
> filters would help, or would they be too narrow?
>
> The pass-band shift does a fair job of eliminating QRM from one side
> or the other of the selected frequency, but when there are two very
> strong signals within 2 Khz on each side at the same time, they just
> aren't effective on both.
>
> Any input appreciated!
>
> Thanks in advance es 73 Dave KB3MOW
ABSOLUTELY! My FT-1000MP/Mark V has both dual 500hz and dual 250hz
filters, and I **always** use them in the course of a digital qso. For
PSK31 and Hellscreiber, the 250hz filters are often, no usually, the
difference between Q5 copy and no copy. For Olivia (500hz) and MFSK,
the 500 hz filters are equally essential. The key is to ensure that you
align the passband such that the signal that you are listening to is in
the center of the receiver's passband. (You can do this with the
<ALIGN:(passband center freq)> macro in MixW, or the Center command in
PSK31). Then kick in the filters, and often you will be astounded at
the difference in the quality of the copy.
Listening wide open is fine when you are looking for someone to work.
But once you establish contact, the filters are essential in our crowded
digital mode bands. I cannot tell you how many times I have saved a QSO
this way from PacTrash, or just other digital op signals.
de Roger W6VZV
Messages in this topic (22)
________________________________________________________________________
1h. Re: narrow filters/PSK
Posted by: "kv9u" [EMAIL PROTECTED] kv9u
Date: Wed Mar 7, 2007 9:03 pm ((PST))
Like most things, there is a middle path on this. Most of the time I can
operate digital modes with a wide setting on my passband. The maximum on
my ICOM 756 Pro 2 is 3.6 kHz. If I do get some very strong signals, they
can and will desense the rig and the waterfall display will weaken,
sometimes unacceptably.
Then I either use my passband tuning controls to tighten up the
filtering and block out the interfering signal. This PBT is not as good
as using the selectable filters. The rig has three selections that you
can use as defaults but you can also change any one of them with a few
keypresses.
I often set up my digital modes for 2.3, 1.0 and 0.5 kHz. I can go down
to 50 Hz which is very impressive DSP filtering for CW and even PSK31.
But you don't have much leeway in tuning.
So most of the time (90%+) I use a wider setting and only tighten it up
if I have a problem decoding the station I am working. If I have the
station centered on 1500 Hz, I can change the filters or the PBT and
know that it is the best fit for the passband.
My QTH is very rural and far from any local QRO operators. My main QRM
is from my own 6 joule energizers (electric fencers) of which I have two
to cover different sides of the farm. Thankfully, my rig's noise blanker
is very effective against that kind of noise. I have never been very
impressed with DSP noise reduction, although it may help a little bit.
73,
Rick, KV9U
Roger J. Buffington wrote:
> A strong adjacent PSK31
> signal inside the passband will desensitize any rig's receiver by
> activating the AGC such that if you try to receive a weaker adjacent
> signal, you will be unsuccessful. If you disable the AGC often the
> stronger signal will simply overload the receiver. IF filtering is
> essential for preventing this, and countless times filtering has made
> the difference between good copy and no copy. DSP filters are only
> helpful if they are in the IF, preventing AGC action by signals outside
> the passband. Software solutions, such as those in MixW or PSK Deluxe,
> cannot affect the rig's AGC action and are no substitute for good IF
> filtering.
>
>
>
Messages in this topic (22)
________________________________________________________________________
1i. Re: narrow filters/PSK
Posted by: "Rein Couperus" [EMAIL PROTECTED] pa0r
Date: Thu Mar 8, 2007 1:59 am ((PST))
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
> Gesendet: 07.03.07 22:30:55
> An: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
> Betreff: Re: [digitalradio] narrow filters/PSK
Thanks, Rein, for confirming what I suspected. For a fixed
> frequency/mode such as pskmail, I'd have to agree completely, but for
> general use, such as me running PSK31 for one QSO, maybe RTTY for
> another, and Olivia for yet another, I think the 500 Hz would probably
> be my best option.
That's why I have both 300 and 500 Hz in th FT857D :)
Rein
>
> Tnx es 73
> Dave
> KB3MOW
--
http://pa0r.blogspirit.com
Messages in this topic (22)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
2a. Re: 3580kHz-3600kHz Freq Coordination Info
Posted by: "Roger J. Buffington" [EMAIL PROTECTED] w6vzv
Date: Wed Mar 7, 2007 6:08 pm ((PST))
expeditionradio wrote:
> Hi Scott,
>
> There is no grab happening. Everyone has to operate somewhere in this
> small band. Since the sub-band changes are fairly new, the only
> coordination entities listed so far have been well-organized ones
> like ARRL NTS, Winlink2000, ARRL's W1AW station, and International
> ALE.
>
> If you are part of an organized entity that is seeking coordination
> in this part of the band, you can freely correspond with all of the
> other entities to help enable coordination.
It would appear to me that the above use of the term "coordination" is a
misuse of what is a term of art. In the context of Part 97,
"coordination" applies to coordination of repeater freqs, and compliance
with such coordination is mandatory. ALE and Pactor freqs are not
"coordinated" as that term is used in Part 97 to my understanding.
de Roger W6VZV
Messages in this topic (17)
________________________________________________________________________
2b. Re: 3580kHz-3600kHz Freq Coordination Info
Posted by: "kv9u" [EMAIL PROTECTED] kv9u
Date: Wed Mar 7, 2007 9:17 pm ((PST))
Whether we like it or not, much of this was decided over a decade ago
when the FCC ruled that if the station was using 500 Hz or narrower
modes, it would be legal to operate with "semi" automatic operation.
Fully automatic stations, such as the NTS/D which uses the Winlink
system (not to be confused with the Winlink 2000 system which is
completely different), and the other automatic forwarding stations such
as a few remaining HF Packet stations, must operate in the automatic
portions of the bands. For 80 meters this is the upper 15 kHz of the
text data portion of the band which is from 3585 to 3600.
In addition, any wide band (> 500 Hz), semi-automatic stations must also
operate in the automatic portion of the band. This means that P-3
stations that are used in the Winlink 2000 system must only operate in
these small automatic areas.
Otherwise, Winlink 2000 stations, when operating in semi-automatic mode
with a human control operator on one side of the link, can operate in
any portion of the text data area which is from 3500 to 3600. This does
not seem to match the ARRL bandplan which recommends 3570 to 3600 for
RTTY/Data. Lower frequencies of any digital modes would not be in
compliance with this bandplan.
As some hams have recently been finding out, the FCC can cite them for
poor operating practices if they are not following the bandplans. I
don't personally agree with that, but it is something to consider.
73,
Rick, KV9U
Danny Douglas wrote:
> I dont understand why all the different winlink freqs. Are all these
> going
> to be on at the same time? Looks like state organizations so wonder why
> they cant share the same freqs? Particularlly when there is NO emergency.
> Frankly, the FCC really screwed up on this one, and I hope someone, other
> than automatic groups, complains enough so that we are given back some of
> our narrowmode only portions.
>
Messages in this topic (17)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
3a. Re: Narrow?
Posted by: "expeditionradio" [EMAIL PROTECTED] expeditionradio
Date: Wed Mar 7, 2007 6:35 pm ((PST))
--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, "Danny Douglas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I hope someone, other
> than automatic groups, complains enough so that we are given back
some of
> our narrowmode only portions.
>
> Danny Douglas N7DC
I have never heard of narrowmode only portions before, Danny.
Where were they?
Bonnie KQ6XA
Messages in this topic (17)
________________________________________________________________________
3b. Re: Narrow?
Posted by: "Danny Douglas" [EMAIL PROTECTED] n7dc
Date: Wed Mar 7, 2007 7:08 pm ((PST))
Well Bonnie the whole of the bottom of almost every band is narrow mode.
That is by rule, as well as common use and has been since voice first came
on the air.
The cw,rtty, data subbands are considered narrow mode, and the top of the
bands for VOICE and Image are wider, thus wide bands. Lets put it this way-
that is as wide band as we are going to get. FCCs action of moving the SSB
portion down to 3.6 MHZ was not requested, but they took that in their own
heads and did it. Thus, we are all jammed in from 3.5 to 3.6 just when the
digital modes are getting more and more popular and we need more bandwidth
for your auto stations as well as CW and narrower Data. Not a smart move.
(Yes- I know that CW can go anywhere in most bands - but it doesnt fit in
with SSB or automatic modes so lets not go there.)
Like has been said, most of us are going where we can find an empty slot at
the given moment, and if others intefere there will be official complaints.
If one looks around and finds a clear spot at 3.595, and starts using it,
and an automatic station suddenly starts up there later, given that these
"plans" are not law, thats what is going to happen. I think any of us could
live with automatic stations being given a small portion of a band, as long
as they are willing to share with each other, but taking 17 or even 7
percent or some such, itsnt going to play.
Danny Douglas N7DC
ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA
SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB all
DX 2-6 years each
.
QSL LOTW-buro- direct
As courtesy I upload to eQSL but if you
use that - also pls upload to LOTW
or hard card.
moderator [EMAIL PROTECTED]
moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk
----- Original Message -----
From: "expeditionradio" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <digitalradio@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 9:35 PM
Subject: [digitalradio] Re: Narrow?
> --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, "Danny Douglas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > I hope someone, other
> > than automatic groups, complains enough so that we are given back
> some of
> > our narrowmode only portions.
> >
> > Danny Douglas N7DC
>
> I have never heard of narrowmode only portions before, Danny.
> Where were they?
>
> Bonnie KQ6XA
>
>
>
>
> Announce your digital presence via our DX Cluster
telnet://cluster.dynalias.org
>
> Our other groups:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dxlist/
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/contesting
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wnyar
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Omnibus97
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.7/713 - Release Date: 3/7/2007
9:24 AM
>
Messages in this topic (17)
________________________________________________________________________
3c. Re: Narrow?
Posted by: "expeditionradio" [EMAIL PROTECTED] expeditionradio
Date: Wed Mar 7, 2007 8:12 pm ((PST))
--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, "Danny Douglas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Well Bonnie the whole of the bottom of almost every band is
> narrow mode.
> That is by rule, as well as common use and has been since
> voice first came on the air.
> FCCs action of moving the SSB portion down to 3.6 MHZ was not
> requested, but they took that in their own heads and did it.
> Thus, we are all jammed in from 3.5 to 3.6 just when the
Hi Danny,
Please tell me where to find that FCC Rule.
I've read all of the FCC rules covering the Amateur Radio Service, but
I don't ever remember seeing the one you are talking about.
Bonnie KQ6XA
Messages in this topic (17)
________________________________________________________________________
3d. Re: Narrow?
Posted by: "Andrew O'Brien" [EMAIL PROTECTED] obrienaj
Date: Thu Mar 8, 2007 4:00 am ((PST))
>
> Please tell me where to find that FCC Rule.
>
> I've read all of the FCC rules covering the Amateur Radio Service, but
> I don't ever remember seeing the one you are talking about.
>
> Bonnie KQ6XA
>
>
Danny is probably talking about suggested band plans rather than
actual law... such as
1.800 - 2.000 CW
1.800 - 1.810 Digital Modes
1.810 CW QRP
1.843-2.000 SSB, SSTV and other wideband modes
1.910 SSB QRP
1.995 - 2.000 Experimental
1.999 - 2.000 Beacons
Andy K3UK
Messages in this topic (17)
________________________________________________________________________
3e. Re: Narrow?
Posted by: "Danny Douglas" [EMAIL PROTECTED] n7dc
Date: Thu Mar 8, 2007 5:07 am ((PST))
No - I'm talking about rules. If you tune up and start working voice in the
low part of those bands, you are likely to get a quick letter from the FCC
asking to explain why you are there. It is a restriction that many
countries don't have - but it is part of our licensing structure.
Danny Douglas N7DC
ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA
SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB all
DX 2-6 years each
.
QSL LOTW-buro- direct
As courtesy I upload to eQSL but if you
use that - also pls upload to LOTW
or hard card.
moderator [EMAIL PROTECTED]
moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew O'Brien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <digitalradio@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 6:57 AM
Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Re: Narrow?
> >
> > Please tell me where to find that FCC Rule.
> >
> > I've read all of the FCC rules covering the Amateur Radio Service, but
> > I don't ever remember seeing the one you are talking about.
> >
> > Bonnie KQ6XA
> >
> >
>
>
> Danny is probably talking about suggested band plans rather than
> actual law... such as
>
> 1.800 - 2.000 CW
> 1.800 - 1.810 Digital Modes
> 1.810 CW QRP
> 1.843-2.000 SSB, SSTV and other wideband modes
> 1.910 SSB QRP
> 1.995 - 2.000 Experimental
> 1.999 - 2.000 Beacons
>
>
> Andy K3UK
>
>
>
>
> Announce your digital presence via our DX Cluster
telnet://cluster.dynalias.org
>
> Our other groups:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dxlist/
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/contesting
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wnyar
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Omnibus97
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.8/714 - Release Date: 3/8/2007
10:58 AM
>
Messages in this topic (17)
________________________________________________________________________
3f. Re[2]: [digitalradio] Re: Narrow?
Posted by: "Flavio Padovani" [EMAIL PROTECTED] kp4awx
Date: Thu Mar 8, 2007 5:33 am ((PST))
Saludos Danny,
If the "rules" are not written, then they do not exist. That is
the way our legal system works.
Thursday, March 8, 2007, 8:55:43 AM, you wrote:
DD>
DD>
DD>
DD>
DD>
DD> No - I'm talking about rules. If you tune up and start working voice in
the
DD> low part of those bands, you are likely to get a quick letter from the
FCC
DD> asking to explain why you are there. It is a restriction that many
DD> countries don't have - but it is part of our licensing structure.
DD> Danny Douglas N7DC
DD> ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA
DD> SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB all
DD> DX 2-6 years each
DD> .
DD> QSL LOTW-buro- direct
DD> As courtesy I upload to eQSL but if you
DD> use that - also pls upload to LOTW
DD> or hard card.
DD>
DD> moderator [EMAIL PROTECTED]
DD> moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk
DD> ----- Original Message -----
DD> From: "Andrew O'Brien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
DD> To: <digitalradio@yahoogroups.com>
DD> Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 6:57 AM
DD> Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Re: Narrow?
DD>
>> >
>> > Please tell me where to find that FCC Rule.
>> >
>> > I've read all of the FCC rules covering the Amateur Radio Service,
but
>> > I don't ever remember seeing the one you are talking about.
>> >
>> > Bonnie KQ6XA
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> Danny is probably talking about suggested band plans rather than
>> actual law... such as
>>
>> 1.800 - 2.000 CW
>> 1.800 - 1.810 Digital Modes
>> 1.810 CW QRP
>> 1.843-2.000 SSB, SSTV and other wideband modes
>> 1.910 SSB QRP
>> 1.995 - 2.000 Experimental
>> 1.999 - 2.000 Beacons
>>
>>
>> Andy K3UK
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Announce your digital presence via our DX Cluster
DD> telnet://cluster.dynalias.org
>>
>> Our other groups:
>>
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dxlist/
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/contesting
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wnyar
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Omnibus97
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.8/714 - Release Date: 3/8/2007
DD> 10:58 AM
>>
DD>
DD>
DD>
DD>
DD>
--
73,
Flavio Padovani
KP4AWX
Messages in this topic (17)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
4. Re: 3580kHz-3600kHz Freq Coordination Info
Posted by: "Box SisteenHundred" [EMAIL PROTECTED] box16000
Date: Thu Mar 8, 2007 5:33 am ((PST))
What coordination...? the ARRL just stuck a flag into
a frequency and called it theirs !
73
Bill KA8VIT
>From: "expeditionradio" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>There is no grab happening. Everyone has to operate somewhere in this
>small band. Since the sub-band changes are fairly new, the only
>coordination entities listed so far have been well-organized ones like
>ARRL NTS, Winlink2000, ARRL's W1AW station, and International ALE.
>
>73 Bonnie KQ6XA
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Messages in this topic (17)
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