Hello Tony, TKS for all data. It is interesting to have a completly different way to find the minimum S/N.
I note that you find PAX a bit better than ARQ FAE (in APRS without ARQ memory). With my measures it was reversed (ARQ FAE:-11.5 dB against -10 dB for PAX). I was a bit surprised for PSK10. My measures gives -17.5 dB, yours -20 dB but we are coherent for PSKAM10: mine: -19.5 dB, yours -20 dB When I'm very surprised is about RS ID. My measures gives a minimum of -14 dB, yours -25 dB Do you really detect the mode defined with the RS ID with a -25 dB signal? For the rest, it is obvious that PSK10 and PSKAM10 under disturbed conditions are not very good as PSK modes in general. Video ID is readable with strong signals. That's true. 73 and TKS again Patrick ----- Original Message ----- From: Tony To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 12:21 PM Subject: [digitalradio] Digital Mode Path Simulations; Revised Patrick, Please see below. Added the modes you requested to the HF path simulation tests. ALE400 (unproto) PSK10 PSKAM10 RSID Video ID Tony, K2MO +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Sensitivity Test #1 Minimum SNR(no Ionosphere distortion)This test was conducted to reveal the weak signal potential of each mode beforesubjecting the signal to ionospheric distortion. The signal-to-noise ratios represent theweakest signal attainable while the modedecoded 100% of the message fed throughthe simulator. The "Quick Brown Fox" Pangram was usedfor each test. Jason Turbo (Fast)...............-25dbPSK10............................-20dbPSKAM10..........................-20dbContestia 500/32.................-15db DominoEX-4 ......................-15db FEC-31...........................-15dbTHROBX-4.........................-15db MFSK16...........................-14db THOR11...........................-14db RTTYM............................-13db* Contestia 500/16.................-13db CW 20 WPM.........................13db** THOR16...........................-12db Olivia 500/16 ...................-12db MFSK31*..........................-12db Olivia 500/8.....................-10db PSK31........................... -10db DominoEX-11.......................-8db MT63 1K...........................-8db Olivia 500/4..................... -8db PSK63.............................-7db Feld Hell.........................-7db RTTY 45...........................-5db PAX2..............................-2dbHFPacket (300baud)................+1db * Intermittent "bug" with RTTYM MixW Software ** Subjective speed dictates SNR ______________________________________________ Sensitivity Test #2Direct Path -12db SNR(no ionospheric disturbance) This test has the same criteria as test #1. The onlydifference is the that the simulator is fixed to anSNR of -12db. The purpose is to reveal the percentage of decodedtext for each modes with a decode threshold above -12db. Olivia 500/8.... ...................90% Olivia 500/4........................90% DominoEX 11.................,,,,,...90% PSK31...............................90% PSK63...............................20% Feld Hell...........................Readable MT63 1K.............................no copy RTTY 45 baud........................no copy _______________________________________________________ Sensitivity Test #3Direct Path -15db SNR(no ionospheric disturbance) This test has the same criteria as test #1. The onlydifference is the that the simulator is fixed to anSNR of -15db. The purpose is to reveal the percentage of decodedtext for each mode with a decode threshold above -15db. MFSK16.............................95% Contestia 500/32...................95% Olivia 500/16......................90% Thor11.............................80% RTTYM..............................80% Contestia 500/16..................<50% DominoEX 11bd.....................<50% Olivia 500/8..................... <50% MFSK31............................<50% PSK31.............................<50% Feld Hell.........................No Copy MT63..............................No Copy Olivia 500/4......................No Copy PSK63.............................No Copy RTTY 45...........................No Copy THOR16............................No Copy _______________________________________________________________ Ionospheric Simulations Simulation: High-Latitude PathSim Title: ModerateMagnitude: ModeratePath Delay: 3 msec Frequency Spread: 10Hz Signal-to-Noise Ratio: -8db Contestia 500/16.................100% CW 20 WPM........................100% MFSK16...........................100% MFSK31**.........................100% Olivia 500/16....................100% Olivia 500/8.....................100% RTTYM 500/32.....................100% Olivia 500/4......................90% Feld Hell..................... ...90%* ThrobX-4..........................70% DominoEX 4bd.....................No Copy DominoEX 11bd....................No Copy FEC-31...........................No CopyPSK31............................No CopyJason Turbo (fast)...............No CopyPSK10............................No CopyPSKAM10..........................No Copy PSK63............................No Copy RTTY45...........................No Copy THOR-11..........................No Copy THOR-16..........................No Copy MT63.............................No Copy *diffuse text - readable _______________________________________________________ Simulation: High-Latitude PathSim Title: DisturbedMagnitude: HighPath Delay: 7 msec Frequency Spread: 30 Hz Signal-to-Noise Ratio: -3db Contestia 500/16.................100% CW 20 WPM........................100% Olivia 500/16....................100% Olivia 500/8.....................100% Olivia 500/4......................95% RTTYM.............................95%** MFSK31........................... 90% MFSK16............................75% RTTY..............................40% DominoEX-4.......................no copy FEC-31...........................no copyJason Turbo (Fast)...............no copyMT631K...........................no copyPSK10............................no copy PSKAM10..........................no copyPSK31............................no copy PSK63............................no copyThor-11..........................no copy ThrobX-4.........................no copy Feld Hell........................Readable* * diffuse print - readable ** Intermittent decode problem RTTYM ________________________________________________________ Simulation: Mid-Latitude PathSim Title: DisturbedMagnitude: LowPath Delay: 2 msec Frequency Spread: 1 Hz Signal-to-Noise Ratio: -8db SNR Contestia 500/16.................100% MFSK16...........................100% Olivia 500/16....................100% CW 20 WPM.........................90%* DominoEX 4bd......................90% Feld Hell.........................90% MFSK31 ...........................90% MT63 1K...........................90% Olivia 500/8......................90% Olivia 500/4......................90% RTTYM 500/32......................90% ThrobX-4..........................90% DominoEX 11bd.....................80% Thor-11...........................80% FEC-31............................70%Thor-16...........................70% PSK31.............................70% PSK63.............................50% PSKAM10...........................50%Jason Turbo (Fast)................35%RTTY45............................20% PSK10.............................20% * Missing Morse elements ______________________________________________________________ Simulation: Low-Latitude PathSim Title: DisturbedMagnitude: HighPath Delay: 6 msec Frequency Spread: 10 Hz Signal-to-Noise Ratio: -8db SNR Contestia 500/16................100% MFSK16..........................100% MFSK31..........................100% Olivia 500/16...................100% RTTYM 500/32....................100% CW 20 WPM........................90% Olivia 500/8.....................90% Olivia 500/4.....................90% Throbx-4.........................70% Feld Hell.......................Poor Copy* DominoEX 4bd ...................No Copy DominoEX 11bd...................No Copy FEC-31..........................No CopyJason Turbo (Fast)..............No CopyMT63 1k.........................No CopyPSK10...........................No Copy PSKAM10.........................No Copy PSK31...........................No Copy PSK63...........................No CopyRTTY45..........................No Copy Thor-11bd.......................No Copy Thor-16bd.......................No Copy * Characters diffuse difficult to read. _________________________________________________________________ ARQ ModesMinimum SNR Test(Direct Path no Ionospheric distortion)Minimum SNR criteria is the same as test #1 PAX (UNPROTO)...................-11db ALE400 (UNPROTO).................-8db PAX2 (Unproto)...................-7dbHF Packet (300 baud Unproto).....+1db _______________________________________________ Ionospheric Simulations Simulation: High-Latitude PathSim Title: ModerateMagnitude: ModerateCriteria: Complete Pangram Decode (*)Indicates partial decodePartial Decode Criteria: => 50% Copy ALE400 (Unproto).............-1db / -6db*PAX (Unproto)................-4db / -10db*PAX2 (Unproto)...............+2db / 0db*HF Packet (Unproto 300bd)......NO DECODE*Partial Decode___________________________________________________ Simulation: High-Latitude PathSim Title: DisturbedMagnitude: HighCriteria: Complete Pangram Decode (*)Indicates partial decodePartial Decode Criteria: =>50% Copy ALE400 (Unproto)...............Incomplete / +2db*PAX (Unproto)..................NO DECODEPAX2 (Unproto).................NO DECODEHF Packet (Unproto 300bd)......NO DECODE ___________________________________________________ Simulation: Mid-Latitude PathSim Title: DisturbedMagnitude: LowCriteria: Complete Pangram Decode (*)Indicates partial decodePartial Decode Criteria: => 50% CopyALE400 (Unproto)...............-2db / -6db*PAX (Unproto)..................-4db / -10db*PAX2 (Unproto).................+1db / -2db*HF Packet (Unproto 300bd).........NO DECODE _____________________________________________________Simulation: Low-Latitude PathSim Title: DisturbedMagnitude: HighCriteria: Complete Pangram Decode (*)Indicates partial decodePartial Decode Criteria: =>50% Copy ALE400 (Unproto)................0db / -5db*PAX (Unproto)...................0db / -6db*PAX2 (Unproto)....................NO DECODEHF Packet (Unproto 300bd).........NO DECODE _________________________________________________________________ RSID and Video I.D.Tests(MutliPSK Software by F6CTE) Minimum SNR (no Ionospheric distortion)RSID......... -25dbVideo ID..... -2db_______________________________________ Ionospheric SimulationsHigh-Latitude ModerateRSID........No DecodeVideo.......Partial Decode** Difuse text difficult to read regardless of SNR_____________________________________________________ High-Latitude DisturbedRSID........No DecodeVideo.......No Decode**Text completely difuse_____________________________________________ Mid-Latitude DisturbedRSID........-25dbVideo....... +3db__________________________________________Low-Latitude DisturbedRSID........No DecodeVideo.......Partial Decode** Difuse text difficult to read regardless of SNR
