Science research, especially when conveyed to the target audience requires more than just "because I say there is evidence". You go on about how its science yet I've read this thread over and over and I can't pick out a single reference, scientific method, or any actual research from you. It is "because I say so".
I've read through the website and I don't have any question about the direction of GNUstep. What I'm hearing from you is that you don't want that to be the direction. I disagree completely, as my intent for using NS* and UI* in GNUstep matches the stated goals completely. I don't care that you want UIkit to wrap NS*, I don't care that you think UI* and NS* are the same. They are not the same and anyone with a solid background in architecture would understand there is more to the issue than API calls. Since you have not demonstrated any experience in architecture and propose a model of how things work that is contrary to my first person experience, Please forgive me if I don't take you at your word. On Dec 24, 2013, at 2:49 PM, Doc O'Leary <drole...@7usenet2013.subsume.com> wrote: >> Honest? It's OK to be honestly mistaken, but when you ignore evidence, >> that's self deception. > > Indeed. So why are so few people here ignoring the evidence? Why to > they deceive themselves into thinking that people who point out problems > *are* the problem? I still can't figure out for the life of me what this evidence is. You keep ranting about it but never really present it. > >>> You do know that *is* the way of science, right? >> >> No, agreeing with you for no reason is called 'faith' ... pretty much the >> opposite of science. > As stated above, pretty much everyone reading i.m.o. can't figure out what this evidence is. You've made a few good points, but even those points aren't backed by scientific research and are just repeated. If they are based on science then you are not demonstrating the methods to arrive at the conclusions to make your case believable. (A requirement of Science) > I'm not asking them to agree with me. In fact, I'm partly doing the > opposite. Do you think I don't *know* that people don't like it when > you talk to them with brutal honesty? I could *easily* use a nicer > voice to express my opinions here. Opinions. > > What do you expect me to show you that isn't available freely? Do you > want the link to the failed Kickstarter proposal? > > http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/203272607/gnustep-project > Kickstarts fail because of a lot of reasons. You've chosen 1 to focus on and incorrectly. Most Kickstarters that are a success are a success because they have already earned an audience of individuals before the kickstarter. This pre-populated seed group are actually the ones that end up funding the project, viral kickstarters are the edge case. For a kickstarter success, its important to set Kickstarter goals within the bounds your already existing audience is able to meet which Gregory has already stated he did not do. Using kickstarter as evidence that any specific characteristic of the project is the cause of kickstarter failure, is a failure to analyze and present the data in a fair and unbiased view. Infact, one could call the Kickstarter a huge success since it brought awareness and myself to GNUstep. Not all kickstarter goals have to be for $. Actual References: http://www.thedominoproject.com/2012/06/why-kickstarter-campaigns-fail.html http://www.wired.com/design/2012/06/kickstarter-fail/ http://www.kickstarter.com/blog/sometimes-kickstarter-projects-dont-make-it https://www.gameacademy.com/blog/why-do-some-kickstarter-campaigns-fail/ > Do you doubt that the popularity of ObjC has skyrocketed in the last 5 > years? > > http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html > > Do you want to see how little gnustep.org has been changing? > Taking one unrelated statistic and trying to apply it to another topic is not evidence. Skyrocketing popularity does not reflect rate of change. Infact, its the opposite in just as many cases. Much more popular companies and systems have had an extremely high rate of change and constant decreasing popularity. Objective-C itself has not really changed all that much in the last 5 years. In fact I was very surprised when I got GNUstep up and running just how complete it is! ARC, Blocks, a basis in CoreAnimation, this is way more than I expected! Fantastic work guys. >> > > Part of my point is that, yes, such things are *said* on the web site > and elsewhere. But if you actually sit down and think about it, if you > apply the use case "I'm a Mac developer looking to try porting to > GNUstep", the *full* body of evidence makes it obvious that GNUstep is > not very welcoming. > I am a Mac developer and I've found them very welcoming. Are you reading any other threads? These guys are awesome. You want to see not very welcoming then go experience the Gnome project for a bit. OSS require a small layer of thick skin and for what its worth I am very proud of how Gregory and others have treated you throughout this whole thread. They've shown extreme restraint & that itself is evidence that this community is not only welcoming but very mature and open. > > Again with the ignoring of obvious examples to the contrary. Do you > actually bother to read things? > >> Lots of people are doing useful stuff ... why not join in and contribute >> something? > > Answered many times. Please read before responding. > You've wasted so many peoples time and have proven nothing about your skills, your research, your hypothesis, or your scientific method. If you hadn't noticed, this is a software project not a religion. It takes more than talk and an uplifting speech to make progress in source code. If you were the leader I wouldn't follow you, you've shown no experience of software development of any kind in this thread. Especially of OSS projects. As far as your thoughts about "leadership" I disagree respectfully as my experience shows that Management can say anything, but the guy that knows how to code is the one that all the coders follow to get the job done. >> I suggested putting together a VM to make it easier for people to get >> started >> ... is that not something you could do? > > It indeed is. But, again, what is the point in doing so if the > leadership doesn't actually place the *underlying reason* for providing > such a thing as a priority issue for the GNUstep project? So what, you don't agree with leadership. Take control of your own life and destiny. Make it better. Just do it. Your arguments are un-motivating, uninteresting, and are soaking up time which I could have used to make the vm image. Most of us are coders by profession and hobby. Most of us work without the big emotional leader figure inspiring us to move. We don't need it, we love the work so we do it. There is no profession where you get to say "I'm awesome" without proving it. Why you think we'd all just take you at your word is beyond me. You remind me of "that guy" who sits in every meeting and hijacks every code strategy talk so he can say later that he contributed even though he didn't write a line of code. The coders would have succeeded at writing it a whole lot faster if "that guy" didn't keep extending the discussions to never ending points holding up progress. Perhaps some self reflection is in order after reading Dilbert? > Perhaps my > time is better spent on other things. I'm trying to profile before I > optimize, which apparently makes me a jerkwad in this upside down world. I agree, your time is better spent either helping or not wasting my time reading. Your points have been noted and are of public record thank you for what you have contributed. Brutal, Honest, and a Fact. _______________________________________________ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep
