Well, I have no idea how Debian upstreaming works - I just know how a private (or self-published) repository can work (and that it is easier to handle).
-- hns > Am 18.10.2023 um 15:35 schrieb Daniel Boyd <danieljb...@icloud.com>: > > I know this isn’t the first time we’ve discussed getting clang-based gnustep > into Debian. Since Debian 12 just came out, I assume our next opportunity is > Debian 13? What prevented us from getting in 12 and what do we need to do to > get into 13? > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Oct 18, 2023, at 08:20, H. Nikolaus Schaller <h...@goldelico.com> wrote: >> >> >>> Am 18.10.2023 um 14:43 schrieb Daniel Boyd <danieljb...@icloud.com>: >>> >>> The problem with a desktop environment metapackage is that gnustep is not a >>> desktop environment. Window Maker *uses* gnustep, but it is not gnustep >>> proper. In the same way that xfce uses gtk+. >> >> Yes, that is why I changed my mind to propose >> >> - gnustep: is a GUI development toolkit like gtk or qt >> it is a metapackage to pull in >> gnustep-base >> gnustep-hui >> gnustep-gcc >> gnustep-clang >> etc. >> - gap: a set of applications using the gnustep toolkit - one Debian >> package for each one >> - gsde: is a desktop environment using (i.e. making the package >> dependent on) gnustep like xfce is using gtk+. >> >> Potentially it is possible to split then "gnustep" package into a runtime >> (meta) package that just loads compiled shared libraries and a "gnustep-dev" >> package that loads all the header files. And Debian source code packages... >> Then, "gsde" would only have to depend on "gnustep" and not on "gnustep-dev". >> >>> >>> I think you need to strike a balance somehow. On one hand, we don’t want to >>> make it hard to discover gnustep apps. But on the other hand, I think it’s >>> important that we don’t add to the confusion about what gnustep actually >>> is—a framework upon which apps are built. Not the apps themselves. >> >> So IMHO there is no problem at all with this and no confusion, as long as >> "gnustep" and "gsde" and "gap" are separated. In mind and in package names. >> >> My proposal would be to just start to work instead of debating what the >> "best" compromise is. It is not difficult or even challenging and then >> improve the structure after seeing how it works in practise and where the >> issues are. It is not a big deal to rename packages, modify package >> dependencies, descriptions and contents, as long as the debian package >> version numbers are correctly incremented. >> >> I haven't followed all discussions but if there is someone who sets up a >> private debian repository for all gnustep related packages and maintains it, >> everyone could contribute. And it just needs an additional entry in >> /etc/apt/sources.list or a file in /etc/apt/sources.list.d >> >> -- hns >> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>>> On Oct 18, 2023, at 00:32, H. Nikolaus Schaller <h...@goldelico.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Well, on second thought it is a matter of definition. >>>> >>>> There could be: >>>> gsde - as the GNUstep based desktop (equivalent to xfce4 for example) >>>> gnustep - as the full and complete development system (equivalent to >>>> Xcode) >>>> gap - the GNUstep applications >>>> >>>> >>>>>> Am 18.10.2023 um 07:11 schrieb H. Nikolaus Schaller <h...@goldelico.com>: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Am 18.10.2023 um 00:15 schrieb Daniel Boyd <danieljb...@icloud.com>: >>>>>> >>>>>> Yeah you're right -- that was oversimplifying. >>>>>> >>>>>> I think you need several metapackages >>>>>> >>>>>> metapackages for running gnustep apps >>>>>> gnustep -- synonym for gnustep-clang (at least I think that should be >>>>>> the default) >>>>> >>>>> No, if you apt install lxde or xfce4 or mate or ... it is simply a >>>>> metapackage not for running apps but a full preconfigured desktop >>>>> including some default setup and apps like Terminal, web browser. That is >>>>> the best user experience. >>>>> >>>>> So it should be a package that installs gnustep desktop eonvironment. >>>>> I.e. base, gui, gap apps, etc. which can be grouped in other metapackages >>>>> (e.g. gnustep-core, gnustep-gap) >>>>> >>>>> And then there should be gnustep-dev for being able to develop packages. >>>>> Which will be best developer experience. >>>>> >>>>>> gnustep-gcc >>>>>> gnustep-clang >>>>>> >>>>>> metapackages for developing gnustep apps >>>>>> gnustep-dev (installs gnustep-clang-dev) >>>>>> gnustep-gcc-dev >>>>>> gnustep-clang-dev >>>>>> >>>>>> And then that way if you're developing an app that requires libobjc2, >>>>>> you can just add gnustep-clang as a dependency. (I'm not sure gcc/clang >>>>>> is the best approach. objc1/objc2 might be better...? Regardless, I >>>>>> think you name it whatever would be most obvious to someone new to the >>>>>> project.) >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Oct 17, 2023, at 4:39 PM, Riccardo Mottola >>>>>>> <riccardo.mott...@libero.it> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Daniel Boyd wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Project goal should be for the instructions to get a working gnustep >>>>>>>> environment (in Debian) to be as simple as: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> sudo apt install gnustep >>>>>>> >>>>>>> that's oversimplifying, but something along a couple of virtual packages >>>>>>> like "gnustep core" "gnustep development" "gnustep games" "gnustep net >>>>>>> apps" (if we had more than gnumail...)could do. >>>>>>> A "gnustep full" is a bit overkill, but for whom wants it would be also >>>>>>> easy to do. I don't know how xfce or gnome do things nowadays, because I >>>>>>> always go the "cherry-pick" route there too. >>>>> >>>>> They do it all the overkill way :) >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> These would just pull in the proper selection of packages which should >>>>>>> be separately available. Not even that hard, even on debian. Debian has >>>>>>> most stuff already, except some long-standing missing things. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> With our private repo, even easier then. A thing to remember would be to >>>>>>> make them incompatible with the offical debian packages or something >>>>>>> similar, do be sure that they don't get mixed up. >>>>> >>>>> It is easy to mix public and private repos. >>>>> >>>>> Just my 2cts >>>>> >>>>> -- hns >>>>> >>>> >>