I would tend to agree.
In the past we have developed our own syatems when Tucows was already
planning to launch something similar.
Because I didn't know, I didn't have the chance to consider using Tucows (I
am thinking about email and DNS).
By the time I found out it was already too late.

Regards

Gordon Hudson
Hostroute.com Ltd
www.hostroute.net


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rob" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Elliot Noss" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Todd Jagger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 9:47 PM
Subject: RE: Managed DNS Service concerns (tangent)


> Thanks for the reply Elliot,
>
> Personally I would like to see both a long term roadmap ie in Y4Q3
> service or feature x is planned (if it is commercially unsound to
> disclose the details I would still like to see a placeholder indicating
> a change or a new service for anything within a 12 month window) and a
> more detailed view of what is coming in the short term (say 3 months ?).
>
> This would help me to plan around features which require more than a
> small amount of work, whether technical or marketing, against those
> which correlate to a minimal amount of not very technical work on my
> part to implement. I believe that this visibility together with the
> planned new version of the client will assist us all in adopting the new
> or enhanced services much more easily and quickly than is sometimes
> possible at present.
>
> I look forward to Lee's first announcement :-)
>
> Regards
> Rob
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Elliot Noss
> Sent: 07 April 2004 12:12
> To: Robert Macleod; elliot noss; Todd Jagger
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Managed DNS Service concerns (tangent)
>
> Yes and no. The issue here is one of form not substance.
> There are two things.
>
> The first is a simple HR issue. We have recently added a new fellow, Lee
> Garrison, as VP, Products (separately, we are very excited about Lee
> joining us. He brings a bit of a different skill set than we have had in
> the past). The client code migration path, and communicating it, falls
> into his area of responsibility. He just started on Monday and
> understands quite well that this is on his plate for quick turnaround.
>
> The second is how much or how little to communicate. Do we talk about
> what we are planning to do next week or next year? My preference is
> always to give you guys as much visibility as possible, but the longer
> the time horizon the bigger and more complicated the communication
> becomes.
>
> A lot of work has been done on this issue internally. It is just not yet
> visible.
>
> I don't want to commit Lee to a date on his third day in the office, but
> it will be soon. Robert, if there is a specific issue that you are
> wrestling with please speak to your rep or let me know offlist and we
> will see if we can get you the info you need to make a decision, or the
> resources to help you with something.
>
> I know this is not the answer you were looking for, but I hope it helps.
>
> Regards
>
> On Wed, 7 Apr 2004 07:05:10 +0100
>   "Robert Macleod" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >Hi Elliot,
> >
> >Are you now able to share the plans for the client code with us ?
> >
> >Regards
> >Rob
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of elliot noss
> >Sent: 05 February 2004 22:26
> >To: Todd Jagger
> >Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Subject: Re: Managed DNS Service concerns (tangent)
> >
> >Ok. Time permits.
> >
> >First, I want to talk briefly about client code and RWI.
> >We are, I am,
> >in complete agreement with the comments made. The one thing that I want
>
> >to make sure is clear is that these items are not being ignored. We
> >have spent lots of time and lots of money (little of it well) on these
> >two issues. In any organization some things go well and others go, um,
> >less well. These two are right at the bottom of my personal list. There
>
> >have been too many statements unfulfilled on these two items and I do
> >not want to add to the list. I will say folks are working on these
> >things and, especially with client code, I will be unhappy if you do
> >not see a clear plan shortly (within a month?).
> >
> >Next, with regard to the level of new services. I personally do not
> >agree with the comments below in a couple of ways. When OpenSRS was
> >first introduced it was (quite good) beta code. The original designer
> >chosen did nothing but make pretty pictures for a few months and we had
>
> >to switch all of our plans. We had signed contracts and we had a market
>
> >moving at a million miles an hour. We pushed this baby bird out of its
> >nest quite early.
> >
> >The point of all that is that the level of new services launched today
> >is miles ahead of when we first released OpenSRS and 100's of yards
> >ahead of where the first certs release was. IMHO, each release of a new
>
> >service is a little better than the previous.
> >
> >And SO WHAT. None of that matters, because if there is one lesson we
> >have learned and learned well is that we will always learn more in the
> >first six months being in the market than we ever will just talking
> >with customers and whoever for whatever length of time. If you would
> >rather someone else sand off the rough edges so be it. I would suggest
> >that offering a service early provides two HUGE advantages for you.
> >First, it allows you to participate meaningfully in the evolution of
> >the service.
> >Second, it allows you to learn how to market the service.
> >IMHO, there is
> >much more impact today in the way a service is marketed (and by this I
> >mean all elements, bundling, pricing, packaging, not just where you
> >stick the link or what keyword you buy) than in its features.
> >
> >As for your input, there is an extremely high level of involvement with
>
> >customers at all stages of planning and design. Don't believe me? Speak
>
> >to your rep and ask to get involved. Anyone willing to be demanding is
> >welcome. Many, many of you have participated in surveys, in placeware
> >sessions, in one-on-one conversations with product management and sales
>
> >and in the NSE program. Again, this pales in comparison, no matter how
> >well done, no matter how much done, to being in the market.
> >
> >Lastly, wrt the comment about the process being used in the development
>
> >of blogware vs the development of dns, there are some important
> >contextual differences. They are not what I want to comment on though.
> >Rather I want to highlight that we are learning not only about each new
>
> >service, but also about the process of developing new services in
> >general.
> >
> >Each time we do it we try and do it a little better. We hope to learn a
>
> >little more from each introduction. The approach we took with blogware
> >was much different. Your feedback there is helpful. We will try and
> >take the best of each process and leave the worst. It will never be
> >perfect, but our goal is that it just always be a little bit better.
> >
> >Be assured, with every thing we do your feedback is what drives it.
> >When it doesn't seem that way please remind yourself that you all
> >provide feedback in a number of different ways, meaning no one of you
> >hears it all, and listening to everyone will NEVER mean pleasing
> >everyone. By definition.
> >
> >Thanks for this. It is a great post.
> >
> >Regards
> >
> >Todd Jagger wrote:
> >
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> Pardon me for inserting this extrapolated tangent into this thread,
> >>however Rob's statements I think deserve some (more) discussion here
> >>as they pertain not only to the DNS service but other Tucows products
> >as well.
> >>
> >> Let me preface by saying each of us has a different business model,
> >>needs, goals, customers, etc.  What may be critical to one may be
> >>unimportant, or even undesired, by another, and vice versa.  Tucows
> >>can't be everything to everybody and they have a significant challenge
> >
> >> in trying to tailor their offerings and services to a vastly diverse
>
> >>customer base.  While any endeavor has room for improvement I think
> >>overall Tucows has done an exceptional job and, above all, stayed
> >>consistent with high standards of ethics and
> >>professionalism.   In
> >> addition they overall seem sincerely interested in what we want.
> >> Sometimes they also appear to ignore what we tell them, but at least
>
> >>they're listening.  ;-)
> >>
> >> Whether or not Tucows offers X service or Y product is not the topic
>
> >>here.  Tucows is going to offer the products and services they
> >>determine; that is their prerogative, just as ours is whether or not
> >>to resell that service or product, or to do business with Tucows at
> >all.
> >>
> >> What concerns me is the development these products are given and the
>
> >>level at which they are offered.  It seems in each case we're given
> >>something one or two notches shy of a kick-ass product, and that
> >>directly impacts our abilities to sell them to our customers.
> >>
> >> To use Rob's example, the DNS service without the ability to
> >>configure
> >TTL.
> >>
> >> And the apparent stagnation of the client code interface
> >>and RWI.   We
> >
> >> resellers have been bemoaning the state of the client code and RWI
> >>usability for literally years.  The latest word is that new client
> >>code is important and probably 6+ months down the road.
> >> I remember
> >> that same "official word" perhaps 2 years ago, back when the SF
> >>client
> >
> >> was the model on which the client code was to be built.
> >> Specific bugs
> >
> >> and suggestions have gone unimplemented.  (Does the client code
> >>currently require a payment method - e.g. credit card input - for
> >>renewals?  This was the first reason I went to the SF code.  We don't
>
> >>want to keep numbers on file, customers' credit cards expire or they
> >>change cards or addresses; what is Tucows's model for getting payment
>
> >>on renewals?  None apparently from the client code.)
> >>
> >> The email product has the potential to be a great outsourced service
>
> >>for those of us that offering fits our needs (mine does), and while
> >>some of the product are excellent, it falls short of being superior on
> >
> >> multiple levels.  The new feature additions are an improvement but
> >>don't quite take it to the A list.  The webmail interface is still
> >>clunky, even compared to something like Squirrelmail, and doesn't even
> >
> >> come close to the web interface of Cyrusoft's SilkyMail.
> >> And besides,
> >
> >> how many people want to use webmail for their primary mail client?
> >> Not many I know.  My clients want the features to be usable from
> >>their
> >
> >> email client, and the webmail is something to use when they're not at
> >their computer.
> >> Features like the shared address books are great but aren't going to
>
> >>mean anything to my customers unless they can share them from a mail
> >>client.  There's no mention of the protocol (is it LDAP?
> >> ISMP?  ACAP?
> >> or something proprietary from Stalker?)  There are many other issues,
>
> >>some of which I've raised, and Bruce & Peter, you know how to reach
> >me.
> >> :-)
> >>
> >> The point here is that with core reseller products it seems we're
> >given
> >> a less than complete, and thus less than competitive,
> >>solution.   It
> >> almost seems that the products (at least the Email and Managed DNS)
> >>were determined prior to extensive discussion about what resellers
> >>needed/wanted in the offering, and now that the products are out there
> >
> >> it might be difficult or impossible to mold them to what our
> >>customers
> >
> >> need. This leaves us in a difficult position of either offering
> >>something we're not excited about, or not offering it at all.
> >>
> >> This is in stark contrast to what's going on with the Blogware
> >>development.  That product is being tested, hammered on, Bugzilla'ed,
>
> >>discussed in detail, and most importantly modified to what the
> >>resellers want.  I'm convinced it's going to be, already is really, a
>
> >>top-notch product that's ahead of the curve, not behind it like Email,
> >
> >> Managed DNS, client code, RWI.
> >>
> >> IMHO, I'd really like to see Tucows re-tool the quality of the
> >products
> >> in the same spirit they're developing Blogware.
> >>  Remember guys, this
> >is
> >> technology --- you don't want to be playing catch-up.
> >>
> >> Thanks for listening
> >> tj
> >
> >
> >--
> >Elliot Noss
> >Tucows Inc.
> >416-538-5494
> >enoss.blogware.com
> >
>
>

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