On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 2:14 PM, BRM <bm_witn...@yahoo.com> wrote: several thread entries truncated
>> >> >> >> I will not support or use LibreOffice >> >> until it stops helping spread OOXML by enabling writing in this file >> >> format. There is absolutely no need to write in this proprietary format. > To >> >> do so is contrary to the principle of using ODF and open source formats. >> >> >> >> See the following: >> >> >> >> >>http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=2493&p=169740#p169507 >> >> >> http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20101219121621828 >> >> >> >> ; Unless this changes I will strongly advocate in the support groups I >> >> participate the people stay with OpenOffice.org and not switch to >> >> LibreOffice. One minor point here...OOo also supports writing to docx format. > > Perhaps LibO and all other Open Source projects - and perhaps anyone > supporting > ODF for that matter - should treat OOXML like Microsoft treats ODF and other > formats - as third party as possible. > In other words, read support should be something that users must enable; Save > support should not be possible - it must be converted to either an older MS > format (e.g. doc, xls) or ODF. > We need to force MS to support ODF - as others have pointed out ODF is quickly > becoming the world standard at least at the government level - which means in > a > few years most organizations that support governments will need to support ODF > too, and a few years after that organizations that support those > organizations, > and so forth. MS has lost the file format battle to ODF - it's just time > before > OOXML (especially) and their legacy formats are gone. As another writer has pointed out, forcing MS in these ways is self-defeating. MS is not going to be forced in any direction. MS managers are going to fulfill their legal obligation...make money, enrich investors. LibO & TDF do not have this requirement. Attempts to make things difficult for MS will really only make things difficult for those people who are "required" to use MS products. Many of those users don't have a choice. It is not appropriate to bruise users in order to teach MS a lesson...a lesson that they probably won't learn anyway. A key point here needs amplification. As a USA citizen (even in Washington State, up the road from Redmond) and an open source community participant, my view is probably warped...I think that MS has gone over the line of propriety many times with almost no adverse consequence. They operate as a de facto monopoly. The US regulatory agencies have done little to curb this anti-social behavior. To people who live in another countries, I can only imagine how this behavior appears. Surveys and anecdotes indicate that computer users in other countries than the USA report software to be a sovereignty issue. LibO has an international scope. Governments (Russia recently for example) are moving to LibO and other open source applications to remove themselves from the MS hegemony. Reading a range of formats and offering the ability to save in a range of formats is generous and supportive of the little person user. Going along with MS' efforts to destroy the open document format does not, in the end, support the little person user. MS has a near monopoly; they use it to the greatest extent possible. The ultimate result of unethical monopoly behavior is that the monopolist's products drive other products out. There is no valid reason for aiding MS' efforts to damage open source. > > The idea of LibO/etc reading OOXML pushes the issue - just like MS did to so > many other formats to get people to convert to their formats. > After all, what's good for the goose is good for the gander, no? > No, just because MS does it doesn't make it right. They are using their market power unfairly. If LibreOffice focuses on serving users generously, then _reading_ OOXML documents fits. Writing or saving as OOXML only damages open source applications; there is no benefit to users (as long as documents can be saved in a legitimate way). OOXML is a wolf in sheep's clothing. > Of course, all functionality should be dually advertised - with explanations > as > to why. > > Ben > > P.S. I am not advocating vengeance - just equal and fair play. > P.P.S BTW, Office 2007 and later often get set to use the legacy formats by > default as many organizations don't use OOXML if they have an organizational > standard. It's only those that don't that continue using the defaults. > When somebody buys a new version of Office, their default save format is docx. I've worked with less sophisticated users who get a new computer and new Office to work from home. They can't understand why their teachers (running earlier Office versions) can't open their file. This is a bad deal that MS has foisted on people. It is not necessary to make them pay for this bad behavior...it wouldn't make much difference. But we shouldn't be accomplices to their crime. Carl -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***