Very nice, cleaner, faster than opencongress. plus you link to them as well
as congress.gov and govtrack. Have any plans to expand your app w/ a rep
directory/locator, and auto email support / oppose features? If so, care to
throw a little work to my way =}


On Sun, Jun 2, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Matt L <[email protected]> wrote:

> Morning Eric, no need to apologize. Checking it out. TY
> On Jun 2, 2013 9:44 AM, "Eric Mill" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Sorry for the promotion, but if you want to follow the bill, Scout (which
>> I built) will send out RSS or email notifications as soon as any action or
>> announcements about S.897 happen:
>>
>>
>> https://scout.sunlightfoundation.com/item/bill/s897-113/bank-on-students-loan-fairness-act
>>
>> The House companion is H.R. 
>> 1979<https://scout.sunlightfoundation.com/item/bill/hr1979-113/bank-on-students-loan-fairness-act>
>> .
>>
>> -- Eric
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 2, 2013 at 3:11 AM, Matt L <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm a big fan of Sen Warren myself. I've paid attention to her since
>>> conception of CFPB (the B still leaves a bad taste in my mouth, since that
>>> was when R's blocked her from heading the CFPA and changed agency to bureau
>>> for some reason) and Yes, imho, I think you would be Incredibly helpful to
>>> the call. Much more so than myself if you have the time. Monday, June
>>> 3, 9 p.m. ET (8 CT/ 7 MT/ 6 PT)
>>> To RSVP or register to get connection info:
>>>
>>> http://action.workingfamiliesparty.org/p/dia/action3/common/public/?action_KEY=8028
>>>
>>> Anybody else interested is also welcome, if you'd like, pass the link
>>> around.
>>>
>>> OpenCongress.org has been working a little wonky lately, but here's a
>>> direct link to S.897 - Bank on Students Loan Fairness Act
>>>  <http://www.opencongress.org/bill/113-s897/show>
>>>
>>> Interesting stuff about the dark side of open access journals. I'd like
>>> to copy the 1st 2 paragraphs as well to the g+ thread, but so I don't
>>> appear to be talking to myself, u could post? If you want to just stay off
>>> that thread and remain the mysterious Prof. A, no worries at all...just let
>>> it go. I'll copy / paste 2morrow along w/ the above reply.
>>>
>>> Thx for all
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jun 1, 2013 at 1:59 PM, abram stern (aphid) <[email protected]>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Heh.. Luddite need not be a pejorative -- the way it's generally used
>>>> is ARRGHH FIRE BAD TECHNOLOGY BAD, a fear or loathing of technology but
>>>> their story a bit more nuanced than that (and yet still
>>>> counter-revolutionary).  Critical Art Ensemble's 'Slacker Luddites' is
>>>> worth a look if you're interested:
>>>> http://www.critical-art.net/books/ecd/ecd4.pdf
>>>>
>>>> Agree there's definitely room for innovation around vocational
>>>> certifications - ideally in a way that changes the incentives towards open
>>>> technology.  I wonder how many millions of tax dollars used for job
>>>> retraining have been spent certifying people in proprietary ecosystems (MS
>>>> certs &such at community colleges).  I haven't thought much about
>>>> certification specifically but Mozilla's open badges (
>>>> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Badges) seems like a key component so long as
>>>> the system doesn't get too polluted by badgemills (like a parallel to the
>>>> rising trend of predatory open access ~"journals"
>>>> http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2013/04/09/the-dark-side-of-open-access-journals/
>>>> )
>>>>
>>>> Big fan of Warren in general and this bill in particular.  Happy to
>>>> participate if you think it's helpful to the conversation.
>>>>
>>>> -a
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 10:45 PM, Matt L <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "The struggle continues", Love it!
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you very much for your feedback sir. I appreciate it, especially
>>>>> from an educator's POV. I never intended to leave any implication that I
>>>>> believed you were somehow a "luddite" (yes, I had to look it up ;) ), 
>>>>> quite
>>>>> the contrary, just the mere fact that we are having this discussion on 
>>>>> this
>>>>> mailing list implies the opposite.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think it's great that your teaching FLOSS and html5/css3
>>>>> technologies. I work w/ many of these tools everyday. Eclipse, bluefish,
>>>>> local LAMP env, etc...
>>>>>
>>>>> "I think OCW is particularly valuable in this context (alongside other
>>>>> external tutorials, various projects' irc channels, forums and youtube
>>>>> howtos) as supplement to class material." I believe these tools are
>>>>> invaluable to even classroom participants, let alone students/consultants
>>>>> like myself.
>>>>>
>>>>> The question I still have is, what would be a pragmatic way to apply
>>>>> vocational certifications or credits to Open Source students? Would you
>>>>> agree at all w/ my earlier suggestion? Which is basically subsidizing
>>>>> underprivileged students for vocational certifications. They study
>>>>> themselves, gov assist w/ the cost of certification testing.
>>>>>
>>>>> For example, php is FOSS software, yet Zend.com maintains the core of
>>>>> the language to some degree. Users all over the world can study, play,
>>>>> deploy php applications all they want. Php being 1 of the web's most
>>>>> popular server side scripting languages, employers have a hard time
>>>>> filtering out inexperienced users since they can present beautiful drupal,
>>>>> wordpress, joomla websites on their CV, yet have very little knowledge of
>>>>> what is actually going on, on the backend. Zend offers a solution for 
>>>>> that,
>>>>> just like Red Hat linux, they have a certification program. Users pay a
>>>>> fee, report to the nearest testing center available to actually take the
>>>>> exam...if they pass, great...now they're Zend certified, but if they
>>>>> fail...they just spent hundreds of dollars on Nothing.
>>>>>
>>>>> TY and keep up the good fight,
>>>>> Matt
>>>>>
>>>>> full disclosure: I'm maintaining your privacy but I did post your
>>>>> replies to my g+ thread on this matter. I'll be participating in a
>>>>> conference call w/ Sen Warren on her new legislation to reduce student 
>>>>> loan
>>>>> debt. I realize that is not the venue for me to bring up this topic, but
>>>>> since she asked for my opinion beforehand, so I tried to speak from a 
>>>>> FLOSS
>>>>> perspective as much as possible, and replied to her office's email w/ a
>>>>> link to my post. I know, g+ & FLOSS, the irony. HaHa. But hopefully before
>>>>> the call on the june 3rd, somebody from her office may actually take a 
>>>>> look
>>>>> at our conversation (and hopefully more contribute) and take it into
>>>>> consideration, perhaps even address it. If anyone on this list would like
>>>>> an invite to the conference call on the 3rd, let me know and I'll dig it 
>>>>> up
>>>>> for you.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 8:56 PM, abram stern (aphid) 
>>>>> <[email protected]>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ok, I'll try to be a bit more nuanced...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yep, I celebrated MIT's OCW years ago and have followed more recent
>>>>>> developments.  Have registered for half a dozen classes on coursera &
>>>>>> udacity but haven't actually finished any of them.  Particularly 
>>>>>> interested
>>>>>> that MITX is open source.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Look - I'm no luddite, the benefits of increasing access to knowledge
>>>>>> and information are huge.
>>>>>> MOOCs provide a lot of promise but there's still a lot to be critical
>>>>>> of.  The major MOOC players are for profit companies with unclear 
>>>>>> business
>>>>>> models (sofar: attract all the venture capitalists, get lots of students,
>>>>>> ???, profit!).  The pedagogical approach is essentially broadcast -- one 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> many --  it removes interaction and participation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We also have a ton of people with terminal degrees (and the massive
>>>>>> debt that degree implies) who would love to be teaching, but the jobs
>>>>>> aren't there.    And state budgets are still fucked - underfunded
>>>>>> Universities raising tuition, increasing class sizes and reducing 
>>>>>> faculty.
>>>>>> At some level I don't trust administrators and state legislators to not
>>>>>> throw the baby out with the bathwater and leave us with an education 
>>>>>> system
>>>>>> modeled as broadcast media... hence my line about Clearchannel..   Higher
>>>>>> ed resembles that too much as it is.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm lucky enough to have a course this quarter even if the pay is low
>>>>>> and there are no benefits (I actually made more as a TA, not even 
>>>>>> counting
>>>>>> the tuition subsidy!).  Traditionally it was a "learn to adobe suite"
>>>>>> class, but I'm pushing FLOSS and html5 -- encouraging students to
>>>>>> experiment with free, cheap, funky and unfamiliar tools they've never 
>>>>>> heard
>>>>>> of.    It's been a bit of a hard sell to students who for the most part
>>>>>> just want to learn what they see as 'tools of the trade' (ps, 
>>>>>> illustrator,
>>>>>> flash, maya, unity), but it's turning out pretty well.  The struggle
>>>>>> continues...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've encouraged my students to use online courseware and even linked
>>>>>> to a few on my syllabus.  I think OCW is particularly valuable in this
>>>>>> context (alongside other external tutorials, various projects' irc
>>>>>> channels, forums and youtube howtos) as supplement to class material.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> peace &upheaval,
>>>>>> a
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 7:00 PM, Matt L <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you for your response,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I see that you are familiar w/ openCourseWare as a concept, but have
>>>>>>> you logged into any of the systems and looked at a course or 2? 
>>>>>>> Interaction
>>>>>>> between the professor and online consumer is nonexistent. Lectures are
>>>>>>> usually shot by a TA, or possibly a cam on a tripod, then uploaded /
>>>>>>> labeled / and forgotten. This is Fine. Teachers work very hard, whether
>>>>>>> they're HS teachers staying up late grading papers, or Professors 
>>>>>>> burning
>>>>>>> the midnight oil trying to make these incredibly complex concepts 
>>>>>>> palatable
>>>>>>> for their students in tomorrow's lecture. Users who use the 
>>>>>>> openCourseWare
>>>>>>> programs, use them to learn simply because they want / need to for 1 
>>>>>>> reason
>>>>>>> or another. They do not expect to interact or have their hand held by
>>>>>>> professors of said courses. Let alone expect any tests to be graded or
>>>>>>> critiqued. But at this point, no credit or academic acknowledgement of 
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> successful online/passive/self learner is attainable in any way. I 
>>>>>>> simply
>>>>>>> suggest a possibility of creating an opportunity for the general edu
>>>>>>> society to provide a possible testing standard to accompany the 
>>>>>>> technology
>>>>>>> that already exists. Revenue generated by these tests, would again, be 
>>>>>>> paid
>>>>>>> out to the providers (you) themselves. Pretty much, you'd record the 
>>>>>>> class
>>>>>>> your already teaching, and create a possible extra revenue stream w/out
>>>>>>> participating any more than uploading and labeling your own course
>>>>>>> syllabus. Lot's of different professors uploading the same courses, the
>>>>>>> testing standard can include a referral system for testers to provide 
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> OCW professors they have viewed in order to feel confident enough to 
>>>>>>> spend
>>>>>>> $ to test out of the course. If multiple referrals are provided, revenue
>>>>>>> can be split between all listed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For example, now if you would like to learn web development. You can
>>>>>>> go online, learn let's say php. Program a few sites, ask and respond to
>>>>>>> questions in forums (debugging other people's code while you yourself 
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> waiting on an answer to your ? can help you learn different scenarios
>>>>>>> faster), then study the php maintainers' guide for their certification
>>>>>>> exam. Said exam will cost a pretty penny (sliding scale), so students 
>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>> make sure that they fully grasp the material before they spend their own
>>>>>>> hard earned $ from working jobs at Carls Jr / Dominos pizza on a $200 -
>>>>>>> $500 test that they may end up failing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That specific part; "Many professors simply would like to teach as
>>>>>>> many people as possible", refers directly toward those professors who
>>>>>>> already provide OCW content. Allow me to pose this question. Would you 
>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>> to see an America that was not so far behind academically in regard to 
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> rest of the world?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm confident that you, being an elite UCSC educator, would reply
>>>>>>> Yes to a question framed that way.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In that case, wouldn't it be beneficial for the education community
>>>>>>> as a whole to embrace the system w/ that extra step of student incentive
>>>>>>> (course or vocation credit) to view all the lecture and course material
>>>>>>> that is already available. Since if they can and do grasp the material,
>>>>>>> that allows a disabled / financially challenged / or student w/ 
>>>>>>> extenuating
>>>>>>> family circumstances to not only learn law / physics / psychology, but 
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>> would also have the ability to apply that to their CV.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you for your comments on this issue,
>>>>>>> Matt
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 1:35 PM, abram stern (aphid) <[email protected]
>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Quick rant re: "Many professors simply would like to teach as many
>>>>>>>> people as possible".  I have no interest in teaching "as many students 
>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>> possible", well.. let me rephrase.  What's possible for me is about 24.
>>>>>>>> After that I can't remember their names, the projects they're working 
>>>>>>>> on,
>>>>>>>> their previous work, their strengths and their weaknesses.  And if I 
>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>> know those things, I can't speak to them as peers or provide guidance
>>>>>>>> worth-a-shit on their projects.  Some things just don't scale.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Can MOOCs replace large lecture classes? ...maybe.  Although I know
>>>>>>>> a lot of young phds starting out in academia who are terrified that 
>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>> curriculum now has to compete with some elder MIT professor's video
>>>>>>>> channel.  Like local radio DJs about to get displaced when Clearchannel
>>>>>>>> comes to town.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -a
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 10:43 AM, Matt L <[email protected]>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Consider OpenCourseWare credit:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A portal to search for courses from many of these OpenCourseWare
>>>>>>>>> providers is:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.ocwconsortium.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Many universities provide free education online to much of their
>>>>>>>>> syllabus. Few examples:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://ocw.mit.edu/index.htm, http://see.stanford.edu/,
>>>>>>>>> http://ocw.nd.edu/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  Ability to test out at low cost if candidate qualifies as
>>>>>>>>> eligible; or unable to attend college , private or otherwise via
>>>>>>>>> disability, financial, family, or many other situations where 
>>>>>>>>> Americans
>>>>>>>>> would not be able to afford or schedule traditional college.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  Incentive for students (obvious and many)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  Incentive for teachers:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>    -
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>    Many professors simply would like to teach as many people as
>>>>>>>>>    possible. This is evident due to the amount of OpenCourseWare 
>>>>>>>>> available
>>>>>>>>>    already today. Also, Mr. Lessig, Aaron's Swartz' legal advisor and 
>>>>>>>>> friend
>>>>>>>>>    mentioned as much in an interview with Chris Hayes.
>>>>>>>>>    -
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>    JSTOR: the archive in Mr. Swartz's case, recently opened their
>>>>>>>>>    archive with little to no objection from professors or 
>>>>>>>>> universities.
>>>>>>>>>    http://about.jstor.org/individuals
>>>>>>>>>    -
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>    Any profit earned by the "low cost", listed above, would be
>>>>>>>>>    paid 100% to the producers of the content aka Teachers.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  Cost mitigation:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>    -
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>    Large files, such as lecture videos should embrace tried and
>>>>>>>>>    true peer to peer tech like bittorrent protocols.
>>>>>>>>>    -
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>    Regardless of controversy surrounding the protocol, it is an
>>>>>>>>>    effective way to host very large files for very little bandwidth 
>>>>>>>>> cost, as
>>>>>>>>>    well as in many cases serve your students faster.
>>>>>>>>>    -
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>    Universities/Corporations can host bittorrent "trackers" that
>>>>>>>>>    do not allow submissions from anyone but authorized users or 
>>>>>>>>> providers.
>>>>>>>>>    -
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>    That way all files, and intellectual property responsibilities
>>>>>>>>>    would be attached to the owners of the files. And moderators would 
>>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>>    have to filter those authorized providers.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  Problems:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>    -
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>    Some universities, and many community colleges profit will be
>>>>>>>>>    affected negatively by such a project. But those universities have 
>>>>>>>>> programs
>>>>>>>>>    like the NCAA, and are/will be an aspiration for most of our 
>>>>>>>>> successful
>>>>>>>>>    students regardless of this alternative option. Those students, 
>>>>>>>>> physically
>>>>>>>>>    attending will have the advantage of hands-on labs in facilities 
>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>    otherwise would never have access to as an online student.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  Other Points:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>    -
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>    There many commercials on tv for paid college programs where
>>>>>>>>>    students can earn degrees. These programs can't be better than our 
>>>>>>>>> Finest
>>>>>>>>>    Universities?
>>>>>>>>>    -
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>    Online may be argued as inferior, I wouldn't know, I would be
>>>>>>>>>    interested in a hearing and study regarding efficacy of this type 
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>    program. But if this type of program would be regarded as 
>>>>>>>>> inferior, degrees
>>>>>>>>>    could reflect the type of education that the (now professionals) 
>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>    received. But I don't see how this would not be considered 
>>>>>>>>> discrimination
>>>>>>>>>    as long as all students had to take the same tests, in the same 
>>>>>>>>> type of
>>>>>>>>>    environment. For example, a student studies a topic online, when 
>>>>>>>>> they and
>>>>>>>>>    the software feel the student is proficient, that student would 
>>>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>>>>    schedule a test at a local testing center. (Corp? College?)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  What is needed:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>    -
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>    Long Term
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>    -
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>    Bandwidth...it's that simple. If the government would provide
>>>>>>>>>    funds for cloud services where needed, the benefits, considering 
>>>>>>>>> US youth
>>>>>>>>>    and society at large, would be exponential over the generations. 
>>>>>>>>> The Beauty
>>>>>>>>>    of cloud services is that if your system is not being used by the 
>>>>>>>>> public,
>>>>>>>>>    it costs Nothing. Code maintenance should be eligible for certain 
>>>>>>>>> grants
>>>>>>>>>    based on successful results, but at the same time, all should 
>>>>>>>>> embrace the
>>>>>>>>>    open source community (I.E. support and upgrades for a possibly 
>>>>>>>>> standard
>>>>>>>>>    CMS to be shared among the different providers). These costs can 
>>>>>>>>> run from
>>>>>>>>>    minimal all the way to free, it just depends on how much traffic 
>>>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>>>>    programs receive. If they're deployed in a clever way, each 
>>>>>>>>> university
>>>>>>>>>    could be mirrored by all the rest. In the case that school A is 
>>>>>>>>> just about
>>>>>>>>>    at it's max bandwidth limit; that would trigger a script to search 
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>    other mirrors for available bandwidth. It's possible, if done 
>>>>>>>>> correctly,
>>>>>>>>>    that a program like this could be inexpensive Even if popular.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  Notes on Obama's speech on Student loans this morning 5/31/2013:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Average student loan: $26,000
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Obama's student loans cost more than his mortgage. While he was
>>>>>>>>> still paying student loans, he was saving for children's college, yet
>>>>>>>>> financially better off than most Americans.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> “Every young person should be able to access higher education” is
>>>>>>>>> an aspiration of our President since he was a Senator, running for the
>>>>>>>>> White House.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>>>>>> http://lists.freeculture.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>>>>>>>> FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>> FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> @konklone <http://twitter.com/konklone> | konklone.com |
>> sunlightfoundation.com | awesomefoundation.org
>>
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