Very nice, cleaner, faster than opencongress. plus you link to them as well as congress.gov and govtrack. Have any plans to expand your app w/ a rep directory/locator, and auto email support / oppose features? If so, care to throw a little work to my way =}
On Sun, Jun 2, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Matt L <[email protected]> wrote: > Morning Eric, no need to apologize. Checking it out. TY > On Jun 2, 2013 9:44 AM, "Eric Mill" <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Sorry for the promotion, but if you want to follow the bill, Scout (which >> I built) will send out RSS or email notifications as soon as any action or >> announcements about S.897 happen: >> >> >> https://scout.sunlightfoundation.com/item/bill/s897-113/bank-on-students-loan-fairness-act >> >> The House companion is H.R. >> 1979<https://scout.sunlightfoundation.com/item/bill/hr1979-113/bank-on-students-loan-fairness-act> >> . >> >> -- Eric >> >> >> On Sun, Jun 2, 2013 at 3:11 AM, Matt L <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> I'm a big fan of Sen Warren myself. I've paid attention to her since >>> conception of CFPB (the B still leaves a bad taste in my mouth, since that >>> was when R's blocked her from heading the CFPA and changed agency to bureau >>> for some reason) and Yes, imho, I think you would be Incredibly helpful to >>> the call. Much more so than myself if you have the time. Monday, June >>> 3, 9 p.m. ET (8 CT/ 7 MT/ 6 PT) >>> To RSVP or register to get connection info: >>> >>> http://action.workingfamiliesparty.org/p/dia/action3/common/public/?action_KEY=8028 >>> >>> Anybody else interested is also welcome, if you'd like, pass the link >>> around. >>> >>> OpenCongress.org has been working a little wonky lately, but here's a >>> direct link to S.897 - Bank on Students Loan Fairness Act >>> <http://www.opencongress.org/bill/113-s897/show> >>> >>> Interesting stuff about the dark side of open access journals. I'd like >>> to copy the 1st 2 paragraphs as well to the g+ thread, but so I don't >>> appear to be talking to myself, u could post? If you want to just stay off >>> that thread and remain the mysterious Prof. A, no worries at all...just let >>> it go. I'll copy / paste 2morrow along w/ the above reply. >>> >>> Thx for all >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Jun 1, 2013 at 1:59 PM, abram stern (aphid) <[email protected]>wrote: >>> >>>> Heh.. Luddite need not be a pejorative -- the way it's generally used >>>> is ARRGHH FIRE BAD TECHNOLOGY BAD, a fear or loathing of technology but >>>> their story a bit more nuanced than that (and yet still >>>> counter-revolutionary). Critical Art Ensemble's 'Slacker Luddites' is >>>> worth a look if you're interested: >>>> http://www.critical-art.net/books/ecd/ecd4.pdf >>>> >>>> Agree there's definitely room for innovation around vocational >>>> certifications - ideally in a way that changes the incentives towards open >>>> technology. I wonder how many millions of tax dollars used for job >>>> retraining have been spent certifying people in proprietary ecosystems (MS >>>> certs &such at community colleges). I haven't thought much about >>>> certification specifically but Mozilla's open badges ( >>>> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Badges) seems like a key component so long as >>>> the system doesn't get too polluted by badgemills (like a parallel to the >>>> rising trend of predatory open access ~"journals" >>>> http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2013/04/09/the-dark-side-of-open-access-journals/ >>>> ) >>>> >>>> Big fan of Warren in general and this bill in particular. Happy to >>>> participate if you think it's helpful to the conversation. >>>> >>>> -a >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 10:45 PM, Matt L <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> "The struggle continues", Love it! >>>>> >>>>> Thank you very much for your feedback sir. I appreciate it, especially >>>>> from an educator's POV. I never intended to leave any implication that I >>>>> believed you were somehow a "luddite" (yes, I had to look it up ;) ), >>>>> quite >>>>> the contrary, just the mere fact that we are having this discussion on >>>>> this >>>>> mailing list implies the opposite. >>>>> >>>>> I think it's great that your teaching FLOSS and html5/css3 >>>>> technologies. I work w/ many of these tools everyday. Eclipse, bluefish, >>>>> local LAMP env, etc... >>>>> >>>>> "I think OCW is particularly valuable in this context (alongside other >>>>> external tutorials, various projects' irc channels, forums and youtube >>>>> howtos) as supplement to class material." I believe these tools are >>>>> invaluable to even classroom participants, let alone students/consultants >>>>> like myself. >>>>> >>>>> The question I still have is, what would be a pragmatic way to apply >>>>> vocational certifications or credits to Open Source students? Would you >>>>> agree at all w/ my earlier suggestion? Which is basically subsidizing >>>>> underprivileged students for vocational certifications. They study >>>>> themselves, gov assist w/ the cost of certification testing. >>>>> >>>>> For example, php is FOSS software, yet Zend.com maintains the core of >>>>> the language to some degree. Users all over the world can study, play, >>>>> deploy php applications all they want. Php being 1 of the web's most >>>>> popular server side scripting languages, employers have a hard time >>>>> filtering out inexperienced users since they can present beautiful drupal, >>>>> wordpress, joomla websites on their CV, yet have very little knowledge of >>>>> what is actually going on, on the backend. Zend offers a solution for >>>>> that, >>>>> just like Red Hat linux, they have a certification program. Users pay a >>>>> fee, report to the nearest testing center available to actually take the >>>>> exam...if they pass, great...now they're Zend certified, but if they >>>>> fail...they just spent hundreds of dollars on Nothing. >>>>> >>>>> TY and keep up the good fight, >>>>> Matt >>>>> >>>>> full disclosure: I'm maintaining your privacy but I did post your >>>>> replies to my g+ thread on this matter. I'll be participating in a >>>>> conference call w/ Sen Warren on her new legislation to reduce student >>>>> loan >>>>> debt. I realize that is not the venue for me to bring up this topic, but >>>>> since she asked for my opinion beforehand, so I tried to speak from a >>>>> FLOSS >>>>> perspective as much as possible, and replied to her office's email w/ a >>>>> link to my post. I know, g+ & FLOSS, the irony. HaHa. But hopefully before >>>>> the call on the june 3rd, somebody from her office may actually take a >>>>> look >>>>> at our conversation (and hopefully more contribute) and take it into >>>>> consideration, perhaps even address it. If anyone on this list would like >>>>> an invite to the conference call on the 3rd, let me know and I'll dig it >>>>> up >>>>> for you. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 8:56 PM, abram stern (aphid) >>>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Ok, I'll try to be a bit more nuanced... >>>>>> >>>>>> Yep, I celebrated MIT's OCW years ago and have followed more recent >>>>>> developments. Have registered for half a dozen classes on coursera & >>>>>> udacity but haven't actually finished any of them. Particularly >>>>>> interested >>>>>> that MITX is open source. >>>>>> >>>>>> Look - I'm no luddite, the benefits of increasing access to knowledge >>>>>> and information are huge. >>>>>> MOOCs provide a lot of promise but there's still a lot to be critical >>>>>> of. The major MOOC players are for profit companies with unclear >>>>>> business >>>>>> models (sofar: attract all the venture capitalists, get lots of students, >>>>>> ???, profit!). The pedagogical approach is essentially broadcast -- one >>>>>> to >>>>>> many -- it removes interaction and participation. >>>>>> >>>>>> We also have a ton of people with terminal degrees (and the massive >>>>>> debt that degree implies) who would love to be teaching, but the jobs >>>>>> aren't there. And state budgets are still fucked - underfunded >>>>>> Universities raising tuition, increasing class sizes and reducing >>>>>> faculty. >>>>>> At some level I don't trust administrators and state legislators to not >>>>>> throw the baby out with the bathwater and leave us with an education >>>>>> system >>>>>> modeled as broadcast media... hence my line about Clearchannel.. Higher >>>>>> ed resembles that too much as it is. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm lucky enough to have a course this quarter even if the pay is low >>>>>> and there are no benefits (I actually made more as a TA, not even >>>>>> counting >>>>>> the tuition subsidy!). Traditionally it was a "learn to adobe suite" >>>>>> class, but I'm pushing FLOSS and html5 -- encouraging students to >>>>>> experiment with free, cheap, funky and unfamiliar tools they've never >>>>>> heard >>>>>> of. It's been a bit of a hard sell to students who for the most part >>>>>> just want to learn what they see as 'tools of the trade' (ps, >>>>>> illustrator, >>>>>> flash, maya, unity), but it's turning out pretty well. The struggle >>>>>> continues... >>>>>> >>>>>> I've encouraged my students to use online courseware and even linked >>>>>> to a few on my syllabus. I think OCW is particularly valuable in this >>>>>> context (alongside other external tutorials, various projects' irc >>>>>> channels, forums and youtube howtos) as supplement to class material. >>>>>> >>>>>> peace &upheaval, >>>>>> a >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 7:00 PM, Matt L <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you for your response, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I see that you are familiar w/ openCourseWare as a concept, but have >>>>>>> you logged into any of the systems and looked at a course or 2? >>>>>>> Interaction >>>>>>> between the professor and online consumer is nonexistent. Lectures are >>>>>>> usually shot by a TA, or possibly a cam on a tripod, then uploaded / >>>>>>> labeled / and forgotten. This is Fine. Teachers work very hard, whether >>>>>>> they're HS teachers staying up late grading papers, or Professors >>>>>>> burning >>>>>>> the midnight oil trying to make these incredibly complex concepts >>>>>>> palatable >>>>>>> for their students in tomorrow's lecture. Users who use the >>>>>>> openCourseWare >>>>>>> programs, use them to learn simply because they want / need to for 1 >>>>>>> reason >>>>>>> or another. They do not expect to interact or have their hand held by >>>>>>> professors of said courses. Let alone expect any tests to be graded or >>>>>>> critiqued. But at this point, no credit or academic acknowledgement of >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> successful online/passive/self learner is attainable in any way. I >>>>>>> simply >>>>>>> suggest a possibility of creating an opportunity for the general edu >>>>>>> society to provide a possible testing standard to accompany the >>>>>>> technology >>>>>>> that already exists. Revenue generated by these tests, would again, be >>>>>>> paid >>>>>>> out to the providers (you) themselves. Pretty much, you'd record the >>>>>>> class >>>>>>> your already teaching, and create a possible extra revenue stream w/out >>>>>>> participating any more than uploading and labeling your own course >>>>>>> syllabus. Lot's of different professors uploading the same courses, the >>>>>>> testing standard can include a referral system for testers to provide >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> OCW professors they have viewed in order to feel confident enough to >>>>>>> spend >>>>>>> $ to test out of the course. If multiple referrals are provided, revenue >>>>>>> can be split between all listed. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For example, now if you would like to learn web development. You can >>>>>>> go online, learn let's say php. Program a few sites, ask and respond to >>>>>>> questions in forums (debugging other people's code while you yourself >>>>>>> are >>>>>>> waiting on an answer to your ? can help you learn different scenarios >>>>>>> faster), then study the php maintainers' guide for their certification >>>>>>> exam. Said exam will cost a pretty penny (sliding scale), so students >>>>>>> will >>>>>>> make sure that they fully grasp the material before they spend their own >>>>>>> hard earned $ from working jobs at Carls Jr / Dominos pizza on a $200 - >>>>>>> $500 test that they may end up failing. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That specific part; "Many professors simply would like to teach as >>>>>>> many people as possible", refers directly toward those professors who >>>>>>> already provide OCW content. Allow me to pose this question. Would you >>>>>>> like >>>>>>> to see an America that was not so far behind academically in regard to >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> rest of the world? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm confident that you, being an elite UCSC educator, would reply >>>>>>> Yes to a question framed that way. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In that case, wouldn't it be beneficial for the education community >>>>>>> as a whole to embrace the system w/ that extra step of student incentive >>>>>>> (course or vocation credit) to view all the lecture and course material >>>>>>> that is already available. Since if they can and do grasp the material, >>>>>>> that allows a disabled / financially challenged / or student w/ >>>>>>> extenuating >>>>>>> family circumstances to not only learn law / physics / psychology, but >>>>>>> they >>>>>>> would also have the ability to apply that to their CV. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you for your comments on this issue, >>>>>>> Matt >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 1:35 PM, abram stern (aphid) <[email protected] >>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Quick rant re: "Many professors simply would like to teach as many >>>>>>>> people as possible". I have no interest in teaching "as many students >>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>> possible", well.. let me rephrase. What's possible for me is about 24. >>>>>>>> After that I can't remember their names, the projects they're working >>>>>>>> on, >>>>>>>> their previous work, their strengths and their weaknesses. And if I >>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>> know those things, I can't speak to them as peers or provide guidance >>>>>>>> worth-a-shit on their projects. Some things just don't scale. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Can MOOCs replace large lecture classes? ...maybe. Although I know >>>>>>>> a lot of young phds starting out in academia who are terrified that >>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>> curriculum now has to compete with some elder MIT professor's video >>>>>>>> channel. Like local radio DJs about to get displaced when Clearchannel >>>>>>>> comes to town. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -a >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 10:43 AM, Matt L <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Consider OpenCourseWare credit: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> A portal to search for courses from many of these OpenCourseWare >>>>>>>>> providers is: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.ocwconsortium.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Many universities provide free education online to much of their >>>>>>>>> syllabus. Few examples: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://ocw.mit.edu/index.htm, http://see.stanford.edu/, >>>>>>>>> http://ocw.nd.edu/ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Ability to test out at low cost if candidate qualifies as >>>>>>>>> eligible; or unable to attend college , private or otherwise via >>>>>>>>> disability, financial, family, or many other situations where >>>>>>>>> Americans >>>>>>>>> would not be able to afford or schedule traditional college. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Incentive for students (obvious and many) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Incentive for teachers: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> - >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Many professors simply would like to teach as many people as >>>>>>>>> possible. This is evident due to the amount of OpenCourseWare >>>>>>>>> available >>>>>>>>> already today. Also, Mr. Lessig, Aaron's Swartz' legal advisor and >>>>>>>>> friend >>>>>>>>> mentioned as much in an interview with Chris Hayes. >>>>>>>>> - >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> JSTOR: the archive in Mr. Swartz's case, recently opened their >>>>>>>>> archive with little to no objection from professors or >>>>>>>>> universities. >>>>>>>>> http://about.jstor.org/individuals >>>>>>>>> - >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Any profit earned by the "low cost", listed above, would be >>>>>>>>> paid 100% to the producers of the content aka Teachers. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cost mitigation: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> - >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Large files, such as lecture videos should embrace tried and >>>>>>>>> true peer to peer tech like bittorrent protocols. >>>>>>>>> - >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regardless of controversy surrounding the protocol, it is an >>>>>>>>> effective way to host very large files for very little bandwidth >>>>>>>>> cost, as >>>>>>>>> well as in many cases serve your students faster. >>>>>>>>> - >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Universities/Corporations can host bittorrent "trackers" that >>>>>>>>> do not allow submissions from anyone but authorized users or >>>>>>>>> providers. >>>>>>>>> - >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> That way all files, and intellectual property responsibilities >>>>>>>>> would be attached to the owners of the files. And moderators would >>>>>>>>> only >>>>>>>>> have to filter those authorized providers. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Problems: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> - >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Some universities, and many community colleges profit will be >>>>>>>>> affected negatively by such a project. But those universities have >>>>>>>>> programs >>>>>>>>> like the NCAA, and are/will be an aspiration for most of our >>>>>>>>> successful >>>>>>>>> students regardless of this alternative option. Those students, >>>>>>>>> physically >>>>>>>>> attending will have the advantage of hands-on labs in facilities >>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>> otherwise would never have access to as an online student. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Other Points: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> - >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> There many commercials on tv for paid college programs where >>>>>>>>> students can earn degrees. These programs can't be better than our >>>>>>>>> Finest >>>>>>>>> Universities? >>>>>>>>> - >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Online may be argued as inferior, I wouldn't know, I would be >>>>>>>>> interested in a hearing and study regarding efficacy of this type >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> program. But if this type of program would be regarded as >>>>>>>>> inferior, degrees >>>>>>>>> could reflect the type of education that the (now professionals) >>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>> received. But I don't see how this would not be considered >>>>>>>>> discrimination >>>>>>>>> as long as all students had to take the same tests, in the same >>>>>>>>> type of >>>>>>>>> environment. For example, a student studies a topic online, when >>>>>>>>> they and >>>>>>>>> the software feel the student is proficient, that student would >>>>>>>>> then >>>>>>>>> schedule a test at a local testing center. (Corp? College?) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What is needed: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> - >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Long Term >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> - >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Bandwidth...it's that simple. If the government would provide >>>>>>>>> funds for cloud services where needed, the benefits, considering >>>>>>>>> US youth >>>>>>>>> and society at large, would be exponential over the generations. >>>>>>>>> The Beauty >>>>>>>>> of cloud services is that if your system is not being used by the >>>>>>>>> public, >>>>>>>>> it costs Nothing. Code maintenance should be eligible for certain >>>>>>>>> grants >>>>>>>>> based on successful results, but at the same time, all should >>>>>>>>> embrace the >>>>>>>>> open source community (I.E. support and upgrades for a possibly >>>>>>>>> standard >>>>>>>>> CMS to be shared among the different providers). These costs can >>>>>>>>> run from >>>>>>>>> minimal all the way to free, it just depends on how much traffic >>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>> programs receive. If they're deployed in a clever way, each >>>>>>>>> university >>>>>>>>> could be mirrored by all the rest. In the case that school A is >>>>>>>>> just about >>>>>>>>> at it's max bandwidth limit; that would trigger a script to search >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> other mirrors for available bandwidth. It's possible, if done >>>>>>>>> correctly, >>>>>>>>> that a program like this could be inexpensive Even if popular. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Notes on Obama's speech on Student loans this morning 5/31/2013: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Average student loan: $26,000 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Obama's student loans cost more than his mortgage. While he was >>>>>>>>> still paying student loans, he was saving for children's college, yet >>>>>>>>> financially better off than most Americans. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> “Every young person should be able to access higher education” is >>>>>>>>> an aspiration of our President since he was a Senator, running for the >>>>>>>>> White House. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Discuss mailing list >>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>> http://lists.freeculture.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>>>>>>>> FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Discuss mailing list >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> http://lists.freeculture.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>>>>>>> FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Discuss mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> http://lists.freeculture.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>>>>>> FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Discuss mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://lists.freeculture.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>>>>> FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Discuss mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://lists.freeculture.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>>>> FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Discuss mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://lists.freeculture.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>>> FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Discuss mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.freeculture.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>> FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> @konklone <http://twitter.com/konklone> | konklone.com | >> sunlightfoundation.com | awesomefoundation.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Discuss mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.freeculture.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss >> >>
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