Back To You All : Let me start by thanking all of you for your interesting and valued advise. As I expected, these suggestions has brought things to light that I should pay attention to.
First, I have confirmed the meaning of certain words. In-order to be sure of what is meant by their use. Then, I reviewed the added suggestions. Joe you said, " You've got a few terms crossed. Virtualization and "The Cloud" are two separate things. They compliment each other, but they are not similar. "The Cloud" basically means working with external services. VIrtualization allows you to run multiple operating systems on a single piece of hardware. " To help my understanding of how you mean the use of the word compliment do you mean, " an expression of praise, commendation, or admiration: A sincere compliment boosts one's morale. ? I do believe that you were meaning complement - " the quantity or amount that completes anything: We now have a full complement of packers. " [ both obtained from Dictionary dot Com ] I respectfully disagree with the statement that these terms are crossed terms because technically one could not exist without the other. That the virtual technology is the foundation for the success of the Cloud. I also believe that if virtual technology is the foundation then how could the Cloud standalone by itself. I also see the use of the term complementary to somewhat prove my view if viewed in this manner. If something complements another item, it can be viewed that this item was independent of the first item and that when it was added to the first item, that it enhanced the first. I present that the Cloud could not stand on its' own without virtual technology. The Cloud is the use of this technology in another manner, but that it could not exist without the virtual technology. I can remember when VMWare was compared to Windows 3.1.1 and that I believe was completely wrong. Joe, you also said, " But don't think you need a huge infrastructure outlay to get this set up. You may need just a standard workstation. But it depends on the workload and the applications that are run on the systems. " - Agreed with the last sentence. I disagree with your addressing money paid for going virtual. I would also like to point-out that this was not my biggest concern, but like for all of us costs are one of the major concerns. If you are just considering the "cost of software", you would be correct. I would say that the higher cost of hardware to support this endeavor is a higher concern. Also that this hardware cost, like you pointed to, is dependent upon what you expect to be doing within this environment. Even though the cost of hard drives have gone down and this can be a viewed also for memory, that these costs are still a bigger impact on these technologies than software as long as I stay within a small implemantation. Thank you for bring this point to light, "Are you willing to power off the system each and everytime you want to backup these systems ? This seems very labor intensive and prone to error. Remember: it's not hard to mix up 'dd' commands ... this would wipe your disk. I really only use 'dd' when I have too, and I am very (very!) careful when executing this command. " I understand and agree, but then which software publisher (commercial or open source) do you pick ? The general finding is that they support only the selected versions of operating systems that they have chosen. Right now, I have to protect with an image type backup, the systems that I have. I guess that I really only need to backup my created data, but I really need to also have the added protection of an image backup. I may never end-up using them, but I need to have that flexible choice for a down-the-road choice, just-in-case. I know that, I am not telling all of you nothing new. This is our time machine when we need it. Since it is my personal systems, I have the time. It is not like I am being pressured to make it happen. Thanks Nick ! for your suggestion of SystemRescurCd. I will look into this project. Also thank you for, " ... if the hardware dies you'll have a real hard time getting the image you made with dd working on replacement hardware, thus the virtualization suggestion. " This is one of the claims that some of the commercial software claims that they handle. Can anyone confirm this capablity ? I am just trying to explain the way I see my needs. Like I have said, I really appreciate all of the group's points that are made. With the Best of My Regards, Harvey Rothenberg "Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards." -- Unknown --- On Fri, 10/14/11, Joseph Kern <[email protected]> wrote: From: Joseph Kern <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [lopsa-discuss] Need Suggestions - For Backing Up Older Versions and Current Op Sys's ... To: "Harvey Rothenberg" <[email protected]> Cc: "Evan Pettrey" <[email protected]>, [email protected] Date: Friday, October 14, 2011, 6:18 PM On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 5:46 PM, Harvey Rothenberg <[email protected]> wrote: Mr. Evan Pettrey, My needs are simple to me. I would like to have a single backup program to be able to either make an image Backup and/or a file-by-file backup. This way I can protect myself with an image that can be restored to a good known working state or that I could pick-off needed files from the other backup. It could be a needed Data file or a corrupted DLL file ( which would be relatively easier than trying to pull the DLL from a windows install media, in my opinion ). This is the simple needs that I wish to cover at this time. Yes, I would probably be moving some of the windows systems to a virtual environment later either on a Workstation or Server type system or really I may have need for both types of systems. The only trouble with moving to Virtual (now starting to be called Cloud) is that these systems usually the software to manage this type of function is quite costly. You've got a few terms crossed. Virtualization and "The Cloud" are two separate things. They compliment each other, but they are not similar. "The Cloud" basically means working with external services. VIrtualization allows you to run multiple operating systems on a single piece of hardware. There are many free (or inexpensive) virtualization products being offered. qeum, virtualbox, vmware server, vmware workstation, and kvm. I am sure that I missed a few. But don't think you need a huge infrastructure outlay to get this set up. You may need just a standard workstation. But it depends on the workload and the applications that are run on the systems. I was thinking that maybe it would be better to center in on a Linux/Unix solution like using "dd" and "tar" from a bootable image or from the selected operating system. I understand by now there are a couple of rescue type ISOs that would be a consideration. I also have read that there might also be some versions of these two programs available for the windows operating system. At least the resulting backups would be recognizable by most POSIX based utilities and thus provide a more flexible solution, in my current thinking. Are you willing to power off the system each and everytime you want to backup these systems? This seems very labor intensive and prone to error. Remember: it's not hard to mix up `dd` commands ... this would wipe your disk. I really only use `dd` when I have too, and I am very (very!) careful when executing this command. I hope the added information helps your understand of what I am trying to accomplish. What do you think of my review of a possible choice ? Regards, Harvey "Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards." -- Unknown --- On Thu, 10/13/11, Evan Pettrey <[email protected]> wrote: From: Evan Pettrey <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [lopsa-discuss] Need Suggestions - For Backing Up Older Versions and Current Op Sys's ... To: "Harvey Rothenberg" <[email protected]> Cc: [email protected] Date: Thursday, October 13, 2011, 5:39 PM Harvey, I'm not clear on what you're asking for here. Can you please provide some more specific details in regards to what data you'd like backed up on these systems? Are you attempting to backup user data, system images, etc? Perhaps I'm just being dense as it is the end of the work day but I think some more information is needed with regards to what your objective is. Best regards, Evan Pettrey On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 5:25 PM, Harvey Rothenberg <[email protected]> wrote: To the Members, I have several Windows based systems still operating and I will be introducing Virtual based systems and also Linux based systems into my needs for protecting them. The Windows systems versions are Win2k SP4, Windows 3.1.1 w/Dos 6.2, Windows XP SP3, Vista SP1, and Win7 no SP yet. I will be adding VMWare 4.5, 7.1, and 8 to the mix on one or more of the systems. I will also be using one or more of the Linux distributions primarily as a Host on one or two system. Currently the Windows Win2k, Dos 6.2/Win 3.1.1, and Win 7 systems are independent free-standing systems. I was considering a Publisher like Acronis because they have product that can run on the mentioned operating systems, but if you are a private user they want you on their current released product only, pretty much. Their current product, like most publishers do not handle the older versions of any operating system, but if you had their product back in the day. Their newest and most current software will work with the created backup sets from the older version of their products. Then there is the aspect of buying their product that covers Linux/Unix. You would have to buy their commercial product if you wanted to stay with this single publisher. This price is not on par to a private customer costs (i.e. $ 50.00 it is more like $ 500.00). So I am asking my fellow members if you can make any reasonable suggestions for my current need. If you need more info., just ask. I will say, Thank You ! now for anyone's assistance in my concern. Sincerely, Harvey Rothenberg Systems Integrator/Security Specialist "Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards." -- Unknown _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list [email protected] https://lists.lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/ _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list [email protected] https://lists.lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/
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