+1 Steven This proposed solution can help keep the LOC going while others work out a proposal. Analysis-paralysis could hamstring our whole organisation for too long.
Vriendelijke groet, Marc Vloemans > Op 18 dec. 2015 om 23:06 heeft Steven Feldman <shfeld...@gmail.com> het > volgende geschreven: > > It looks like we are going to need a privacy policy (data protection etc) and > possibly a separate policy on email (the two are not the same). > > I don’t think this something that Conference Committee can or should do. This > is definitely one for the Board. I understand that this is an important issue > for Maxi and perhaps some other board members so hopefully they can produce > draft versions of the policies, publish them on the wiki and then invite > comment from the wider community. I doubt this will be simple to resolve > given the multiple jurisdictions and cultures that we encompass. > > Hopefully that can be completed in a couple of months but I recognise that > these discussions can take a while. In the meantime perhaps including Ian’s > simple draft text "by submitting your email address you consent to us sharing > your details for the purpose of keeping you informed of future similar > events. You can unsubscribe from these communications at anytime using the > unsubscribe links provided.” in our registration forms would be a good stop > gap. > > I suggest that we continue to use MailChimp (because it has an unsubscribe > capability) and we should avoid sharing any further contact details amongst > ourselves or with external bodies until the new policies are in place. > > Cheers > ______ > Steven > > >> On 18 Dec 2015, at 09:40, Massimiliano Cannata >> <massimiliano.cann...@supsi.ch> wrote: >> >> All, >> I believe the point is not if it was nice or not to receive a message for >> being aware of events (that we will be aware in any case thanks to the >> social media and mailing lists) but rather if it is appropriate (or even >> legal?) perform these unsolicited mail campaign and the sharing of these >> data among person on private and non-regulated way. >> We all know that having the data, it doesn't mean having the right to >> distribute it to 3rd party. >> >> @Ian: I also don't think a single line of acknowledgement while registering >> cover the issue. >> For instance your proposal of a "non-active OPT-IN" it seems to me not in >> line with the EU regulation discussed in these days here (but i'n not a >> lawyer): >> http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/news-room/20151217IPR08112/New-EU-rules-on-data-protection-put-the-citizen-back-in-the-driving-seat >> (thanks Helli for the link!) >> >> >> I request, and will add in the next board meeting agenda, to have a deeper >> discussion and agreement at OSGeo level. >> Because I think that the privacy protection is a matter larger then the >> FOSS4G only and is of concern to the whole OSGeo community as it may apply >> to several cases. >> >> I feel that OSGeo shall define like for the Code of Conduct a Privacy Policy >> that applies all over the community and that members shall agree to follow >> when they participate in the community. >> >> >> my 0.1 cent, >> Maxi >> >> >> >> >> >> >> 2015-12-18 10:00 GMT+01:00 Ian Edwards <iedwards....@gmail.com>: >>> I support Paul and Steven's approach (and thank them for their actions to >>> help keep the community aware of events) -- but I think it's also certainly >>> the case that there is always a set of people on our mailing lists who have >>> a strong preference that their details are not shared in a way they do not >>> agree to up front - In fact, I'm sure we would all include ourselves in >>> this category as the type of "spam" we may receive becomes less relevant to >>> our interests. >>> >>> Another way to reach a constructive outcome may be to discuss on the >>> conference dev list an update to the FOSS4G Handbook/Cookbook with >>> guidelines on opting out when submitting your details. My preference would >>> be a statement that does not require a lot of effort from our volunteer >>> organisers, something like: >>> >>> "by submitting your email address you consent to us sharing your details >>> for the purpose of keeping you informed of future similar events. You can >>> unsubscribe from these communications at anytime using the unsubscribe >>> links provided." >>> >>> >>> === >>> Ian Edwards >>> >>> >>>> On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 10:28 PM, Cameron Shorter >>>> <cameron.shor...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> Hi Maxi, >>>> I love the constructive research that you have started here. >>>> >>>> Email privacy was not as topical when foss4g email lists started getting >>>> collected, and tracing technologies such as mail chimp were as assessable >>>> as mail chimp is now. So we are right to retrospectively develop our >>>> policy in this area. >>>> >>>> If you are up for it, I suggest following a similar process to what we did >>>> for getting the OSGeo Code of Conduct in place. >>>> 1. Research best practice policies. Find one that meets OSGeo community >>>> requirements (ideally addressing the majority of the ideas on this email >>>> thread) >>>> 2. Ideally find something that has been adopted and maintained as best >>>> practice among many organisations. (This is the Open Source Way). >>>> 3. Reference it, copy it verbatim, tweak it, or collate with other >>>> sources, (possibly into a wiki page) >>>> 4. Propose to OSGeo community for adoption. Collate feedback, tweak. >>>> 5. Have OSGeo adopt the policy. >>>> >>>> Warm regards Cameron >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 18/12/2015 4:26 am, Daniel Kastl wrote: >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> I wanted to share some thoughts, because I don't want that Maxi's >>>>> concerns are buried under lots +1's, that "we are just doing our best for >>>>> a successful FOSS4G". Maybe Maxi's initial email was a bit strong and >>>>> contained the "LocationTech" keyword ;-) >>>>> I don't think anyone (and for sure not Maxi) wants FOSS4G or OSGeo not to >>>>> be successful, and nobody is against marketing. >>>>> >>>>> However doing something with good intent doesn't mean, that it's right, >>>>> right? >>>>> If there is a privacy policy, we need to respect it and handle personal >>>>> data (like email addresses) accordingly. If there is no privacy policy, >>>>> we probably should have one, because there are at least a few countries I >>>>> know, where not being able to opt-out or receiving unwanted emails can >>>>> become a legal issue quickly (and cost money). >>>>> >>>>> I remember a few months ago the discussion about Code of Conduct, where >>>>> some people thought, we don't need that, because we're well-educated and >>>>> friendly people, respecting each other, etc.. A code of conduct wasn't >>>>> something I cared about that time, because maybe it's not common in >>>>> countries where I live. But I learned, that it's an important document >>>>> for North American countries. And I think the privacy topic is a widely >>>>> discussed issue in European countries, and we have some lessons learned >>>>> about services/organizations trying to track us. >>>>> So that's maybe the reason, why some are not so happy to click an >>>>> encrypted link with tracking ID (and whatever else). While I think you >>>>> already get tracked, when you open the email and the transparent image >>>>> gets loaded. >>>>> Speaking as a Japanese citizen, it's even seen as bad practice here to >>>>> sent HTML emails, so almost every commercial email is text only with >>>>> beautiful ASCII art and is really hard to look at. >>>>> >>>>> While reading this thread I had the following questions actually: >>>>> - Is the collected database of email addresses available on request for >>>>> every local chapter? >>>>> - If a local chapter passes it to some third party organization (in this >>>>> case LocationTech, but replace it with any other name), what happens with >>>>> these addresses later? Are they now merged with the "LocationTech Tour" >>>>> database or the whole Eclipse address pool, etc.? >>>>> - If I didn't open my email, because I'm not from North America, will I >>>>> be removed from the database and future announcements? >>>>> >>>>> I think most email addresses collected from further events were for >>>>> registration purpose. There is no way to register without giving OSGeo an >>>>> email address. >>>>> And even if we won't harm anyone, we didn't ask those people, if they >>>>> would like to opt-in for a newsletter-like service. >>>>> So I find it somehow OK (gray-zone) to use the existing address >>>>> collection for marketing future global FOSS4G events (it's only once a >>>>> year), but you need to understand that FOSS4G NA is a regional event, and >>>>> that the emails probably haven't been filtered by region. If we continue >>>>> this practice, will then every local FOSS4G be able to spread the word in >>>>> the name of OSGeo using a collected address list of the past 10 years? >>>>> >>>>> Personally I think, that as a community we can do much better marketing >>>>> than using MailChimp. >>>>> Maybe it's a good idea to add an opt-in form to FOSS4G registrations, >>>>> where people can sign up for event announcements, even with regional >>>>> preferences eventually? >>>>> >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> Daniel >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On 18/12/15 01:09, Steven Feldman wrote: >>>>>> +1,000,000 to what Paul has said >>>>>> >>>>>> I also passed the FOSS4G 2013 list (which included names for 2011 and >>>>>> previous FOSSS4Gs) to the 2014 team in the spirit of fraternal support >>>>>> to future FOSS4Gs, I believe that was the right thing to do even though >>>>>> we neglected to have specific opt in/out option. No doubt they passed >>>>>> the extended list to 2015 and they have in turn shared with 2016. This >>>>>> is good not bad. >>>>>> >>>>>> We need to separate the animus towards LT from the apparent horror at >>>>>> the use of a ‘commercial’ service like MailChimp. Those of us who earn >>>>>> our living from Open Source Geo need to promote Open Source Geo and that >>>>>> means outreach to people who may not be followers of our mailing lists, >>>>>> so we need other channels. e-mail marketing is an established way of >>>>>> reaching potential FOSS4G participants, it is not evil, it probably >>>>>> isn’t spam (even if you haven’t opted in) as long as you provide an >>>>>> immediate opt out from further mail (which MailChimp does really well). >>>>>> >>>>>> If LT are willing to allow us access to their large contact list, surely >>>>>> that is something we should say thank you for not complain about? We >>>>>> might want to ask ourselves why their list is so much larger than ours? >>>>>> We have a list of several thousand accumulated from previous FOSS4Gs, >>>>>> using MailChimp enables us to clean that list down to interested >>>>>> participants very efficiently by providing a simple opt out. >>>>>> >>>>>> There is no reason why we should not continue to maintain a growing list >>>>>> of people who have attended, sponsored or expressed interest in >>>>>> OSGeo/FOSS4G. The norm should be that you are opted in by default as a >>>>>> result of past interest but every mail provides the option to opt out. >>>>>> >>>>>> Evangelising Open Source Geo is IMHO immensely worthwhile. To do that >>>>>> you need to be a bit pushy while finding the right balance. >>>>>> >>>>>> Let’s applaud our advocates, conference organisers and marketeers, not >>>>>> moan at them >>>>>> >>>>>> Apologies if this is a bit ranty (the first draft was way more ranty) >>>>>> >>>>>> Peace and goodwill to everyone for the holiday season whatever your faith >>>>>> ______ >>>>>> Steven >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 18/12/2015 6:28 am, Jody Garnett wrote: >>>>> Thanks for the productive discussion - some of those privacy policies >>>>> seem to be website specific ( rather than for an organization as a whole >>>>> ). >>>>> >>>>> We just are rebooting the webcom so the timing is good for a privacy >>>>> discussion. It may be easier to start here and then branch out to project >>>>> / committee email lists and a foundation wide policy. >>>>> >>>>> We have a different understanding of foss4g Maxi. >>>>>> On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 4:08 AM Massimiliano Cannata >>>>>> <massimiliano.cann...@supsi.ch> wrote: >>>>>> Dear Gert, deal all, >>>>>> after a few days of discussion I would like to sum up some >>>>>> considerations to re-focus to subject of my first e-mail and that in my >>>>>> opinion should led OSGeo foundation to at least one or two argument for >>>>>> discussion. >>>>>> >>>>>> 1- Some FOSS4G events made use of "aggressive" marketing strategies >>>>>> using mailing lists where the users didn't explicitly agree in being >>>>>> notified. >>>>>> >>>>>> 2- There are laws on privacy protection which are different for >>>>>> different countries/region (this is explained for example at this >>>>>> resource, but I'm not a loyer: >>>>>> http://www.lsoft.com/resources/optinlaws.asp ) >>>>>> >>>>>> 3- OSGeo act globally and should be respectful as much as possible of >>>>>> all the existing rules >>>>>> >>>>>> 4- FOSS4G is the OSGeo's label of their Free and Open Source Software >>>>>> For Geospatial conferences >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Said that each person or organization is responsible for its acts (and >>>>>> is free to behave as he/she/it prefer), I would like that OSGeo - and >>>>>> FOSS4G that is with no doubt recognized as an OSGeo event - act in >>>>>> respect of a well defined privacy protection policy with is >>>>>> as much protective of privacy as possible. >>>>>> >>>>>> Example of Privacy Policy can be found for example in: >>>>>> - Apache foundation >>>>>> (http://www.apache.org/foundation/policies/privacy.html) >>>>>> - Eclipse foundation (https://eclipse.org/legal/privacy.php) >>>>>> - Debian (http://www.debianit.com/privacy-policy/) >>>>>> - Software Freedom Conservancy >>>>>> (https://sfconservancy.org/privacy-policy/) >>>>>> - OpenStack (https://www.openstack.org/privacy/) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> From a short reading all of them seems state that they do not pass >>>>>> information to third parties and do not use these information for >>>>>> sending newsletter unless explicitly agreed. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> So, if I raised you attention to this hot topic and in the future people >>>>>> will be more sensitive and respectful of privacy when they act in the >>>>>> name of FOSS4G or OSGeo I'm 1000% happy and accept any blame on me. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Best regard, >>>>>> Maxi >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 2015-12-15 23:38 GMT+01:00 Gert-Jan van der Weijden - Stichting OSGeo.nl >>>>>> <gert-...@osgeo.nl>: >>>>>>> First: I took the opportunity to change the subject of this thread to a >>>>>>> less shouting version (CAPS LOCK and spam live side-by-side on my >>>>>>> email-irritation-scale) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Second: Funny to see how the use of two different channels (mailing >>>>>>> list vs. MailChimp) kind of reflect the different approaches to reach >>>>>>> the -more of less- same goal. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Any expanding organisation / movement / community comes to a point >>>>>>> where the classical channels (like a mailing list) reach their limits, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> and "new" marketing (yuch! marketing==ugly & bad!) channels & methods >>>>>>> may help to stretch beyond borders. Which comes at a cost (as Maxi >>>>>>> tries to tell, I guess). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Food for thought for the Board face2face meeting in January (and for >>>>>>> the entire community) to determine >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - what our goals are >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - what our values are >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - and how these two compare to each other. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Kind regards, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Gert-Jan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Van: Discuss [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] Namens Rob >>>>>>> Emanuele >>>>>>> Verzonden: dinsdag 15 december 2015 21:51 >>>>>>> Aan: David Bianco >>>>>>> CC: OSGeo Discussions >>>>>>> Onderwerp: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4GNA - SOMEONE IS WATCHING YOU :-o >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hey David, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The emails on the mailing list were cultivated by past FOSS4G NA >>>>>>> attendees, people opting in in other ways, and from lists that were >>>>>>> given by members of this and last year's committee. If we're spamming >>>>>>> people who didn't opt in, it is not intentional and apologies for the >>>>>>> spam (the world certainly doesn't need more spam). We'll take a look at >>>>>>> the list moving forward to try to prevent from sending emails to anyone >>>>>>> who didn't opt in. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Rob >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 2:48 PM, David Bianco <m...@davidbianco.net> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I believe MailChimp has policies against adding emails to your list >>>>>>> without a user's authorization. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://mailchimp.com/legal/acceptable_use/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 15, 2015, at 10:16, Rob Emanuele wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for pointing out that it wasn't yet posted to OSGeo-Discuss, I >>>>>>> just posted it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There's a one-click unsubscribe button from that mailing list, sorry >>>>>>> for the spam! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 12:31 PM, Massimiliano Cannata >>>>>>> <massimiliano.cann...@supsi.ch> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Just a funny note... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Nice to see that LocationTech has a FOSS4G email (!!!! WOW!!!!!) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> and..... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> that all the link on the received e-mail are connected with my user_id >>>>>>> (I have one????? Yes) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> and.... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> that they are tracked (!!! without inform me !!!) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> and... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> that I have been added to a list that i'm not subscribed.... >>>>>>> (http://mailchimp.com/about/mcsv/) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Where did they get my e-mail from? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> why thy didn't simply post the news to the discussion-osgeo list? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> what do they want to track? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If you want to see the FOSS4G-NA without been traced here is the link >>>>>>> https://2016.foss4g-na.org/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> #SPAM #NOT-SO-FAIR #LIKE-MICROSOFT-THAT-SPY-ME #SCARY >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Maxi >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Massimiliano Cannata >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Professore SUPSI in ingegneria Geomatica >>>>>>> Responsabile settore Geomatica >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Istituto scienze della Terra >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dipartimento ambiente costruzione e design >>>>>>> Scuola universitaria professionale della Svizzera italiana >>>>>>> Campus Trevano, CH - 6952 Canobbio >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Tel. +41 (0)58 666 62 14 >>>>>>> Fax +41 (0)58 666 62 09 >>>>>>> massimiliano.cann...@supsi.ch >>>>>>> www.supsi.ch/ist >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Discuss mailing list >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Discuss mailing list >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Discuss mailing list >>>>>>> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org >>>>>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Massimiliano Cannata >>>>>> Professore SUPSI in ingegneria Geomatica >>>>>> Responsabile settore Geomatica >>>>>> >>>>>> Istituto scienze della Terra >>>>>> Dipartimento ambiente costruzione e design >>>>>> Scuola universitaria professionale della Svizzera italiana >>>>>> Campus Trevano, CH - 6952 Canobbio >>>>>> Tel. +41 (0)58 666 62 14 >>>>>> Fax +41 (0)58 666 62 09 >>>>>> massimiliano.cann...@supsi.ch >>>>>> www.supsi.ch/ist >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Discuss mailing list >>>>>> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org >>>>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> -- >>>>> Jody Garnett >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Discuss mailing list >>>>> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org >>>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Cameron Shorter, >>>> Software and Data Solutions Manager >>>> LISAsoft >>>> Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf, >>>> 26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009 >>>> >>>> P +61 2 9009 5000, W www.lisasoft.com, F +61 2 9009 5099 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Discuss mailing list >>>> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org >>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> >> >> >> -- >> Massimiliano Cannata >> Professore SUPSI in ingegneria Geomatica >> Responsabile settore Geomatica >> >> Istituto scienze della Terra >> Dipartimento ambiente costruzione e design >> Scuola universitaria professionale della Svizzera italiana >> Campus Trevano, CH - 6952 Canobbio >> >> Tel. +41 (0)58 666 62 14 >> Fax +41 (0)58 666 62 09 >> massimiliano.cann...@supsi.ch >> www.supsi.ch/ist >> _______________________________________________ >> Conference_dev mailing list >> conference_...@lists.osgeo.org >> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss@lists.osgeo.org > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
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