I think the biggest holdback that makes the workshop either unusable or difficult to use is the lack of electrical. We need to take care of that. That's our biggest issue, by far.
With lighting and outlets, things would be amazing. Ron On 2012-10-02 09:01, Benjamin Bergman wrote: > You guys make some good points. I'm one of the members who only shows up > once every month or two and I felt like this might help motivate me to show > up more, but maybe I should just show up more and take more initiative > without wanting the financial incentive. (I should really use the fact that > I'm already contributing my regular fees without much active participation > and consider that my financial incentive.) > > I agree with Mike that part of the reason I don't come down very often is > that it is "dark, dingy and there's no workspace" and I think the cleaning > person would help a lot with that, but I can't say that the issue has ever > really been that it is too crowded. > > On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 7:48 AM, Michael Loney <maikerulo...@gmail.com>wrote: > > > I know Assent Works had a volunteer program to reduce your monthly > > membership. Unfortunately after the first few months they was not enough > > work to go around for everyone and it caused its own problem. > > > > Also we have a good number of members that do not use the space very much > > at all and when they do show up its dark, dingy and there's no workspace > > anyway. I feel many of them will be perturbed by a member increase for no > > additional benifit and we may lose members over it. > > > > Right now the only discussion we need to have is *WHAT IS GOING ON WITH > > THE LEASE!!! *After that point is settled we can look at the operations > > around the space and see where we stand. If we are stuck with a higher rent > > and large electrical bill then we need to generate more cash but asking the > > members to pay out of pocket is a last resort not a first one. > > > > We need to have public events, workshops and talks so we can charge $5 a > > head and make a name for our space in Winnipeg. > > > > G Mike > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 7:35 AM, Ron <r...@skullsecurity.net> wrote: > > > >> I may be weird and backwards in this, but personally if I'm being > >> paid/rewarded for doing something, I'm much less likely to care about > >> it/do it. > >> > >> Also, if I'm on the board, and I give presentations, and I organize > >> events, and I help with cleanup, does sksp have to give me $20? :) > >> > >> Ron > >> > >> On 2012-10-01 22:22, Mark Jenkins wrote: > >> > Allow me to present /The Jenkins Plan/ . > >> > (originally inspired by our pending electrical costs, but with a rant > >> > inspired by the maid thread tacked on) > >> > ------------------------- > >> > > >> > In order to raise the inevitable revenues Skullspace is going to need to > >> > cover: > >> > * the cost of electricity at some point (landlord can use exit clause > >> > to force it on us with 6 months notice) > >> > * the heating costs we're about to start bearing for the first time > >> > * the cost of paying back a electrical-renovation loan > >> > > >> > We should raise our membership cost to $60 a month, but make it easy for > >> > folks to drop back to $40 a month if they achieve any of the following > >> > community service requirements: > >> > 1) Serve on the board > >> > 2) Have shown and will continue to show exceptional commitment to our > >> > infrastructure (the Colin Stanners exemption), by designation by the > >> board > >> > or > >> > 3) Organize or co-organize an event/happening once per month or > >> > equivalent (e.g. 12 week class has you covered for a year). Non-member > >> > attendees at most of these events must pay an entrance fee. > >> > > >> > Most of the members who would opt for community service would have to > >> > quality under #3. The board would need to limit the number of people it > >> > grants an exception to under #2. > >> > > >> > My wild guess is this amount of community event organizing would allow > >> > us to boost our long term dependable member numbers from the > >> > conservative 40 number I threw out before to 80. I also guess that 65% > >> > of those 80 members would opt for offering community service (so around > >> > 43 members each running or co-running events) > >> > > >> > So, membership revenues go from: > >> > 40*40 = $1,600 > >> > to > >> > 0.65*80*40+0.35*80*60 = $3760 > >> > > >> > A $2,160 monthly boost in membership $$. Plus rental/event access fees > >> > for non-member event attendance. > >> > > >> > > >> > Notice that I didn't include cleaning and garbage as allowable volunteer > >> > exemptions. > >> > > >> > I don't think we should put cleaning and garbage as "volunteer" actions > >> > because they really do just suck. The #1 way to nuke your volunteers and > >> > other supporters is to beg them to do crappy work that they're not > >> > interested in just for the sake of keeping the organization afloat. > >> > People hate sacrificing themselves for an abstract ideal. > >> > > >> > There should be an incentive for volunteering (such as reduction from > >> > $60 to $40) and that volunteering experience should be rewarding and > >> > worthwhile. We should be channeling our free time and talents into high > >> > level hacker organizing and infrastructure that makes people who come by > >> > say "cool, sign me up". > >> > > >> > If anyone out there is feeling pissed about the hours and hours they've > >> > put into volunteer work that they hate doing, I would like to say > >> > *stop*. Just fucking stop working yourself towards bitterness and don't > >> > try to convert that feeling it into pushing other folks into volunteer > >> > work they're not going to like doing or even start doing. > >> > > >> > Find ways to have fun and boost membership numbers/revenues at the same > >> > time so you can look back and say "I'm glad I did all that work, that > >> > was an awesome experience!". Don't waste a moment of time comparing your > >> > contributions to others in a volunteer driven organization with member > >> > dues -- contributions will *always* vary, and vary considerably, so we > >> > have to focus on volunteer contributions where we don't end up carrying > >> > about it and we should also charge folks who don't meet some minimal > >> > standard of community organizing a higher member fee. (they'll keep > >> > paying that fee when its matched by better service) > >> > > >> > Nobody should feel the weight of the organization personally on their > >> > own shoulders as a personal burden. Let the organization adjust however > >> > it needs to not having you bear such burdens -- fuck martyrdom. > >> > > >> > We can pay for shit that members aren't interested in doing by boosting > >> > membership revenues with an increase in fees and a targeted community > >> > service requirement where we ask folks who want to pay less to directly > >> > help bring in and retain members. > >> > > >> > So "paying for shit" has got to continue with the cleaning and garbage > >> > job where the evidence shows we lack a foolish martyr. Let's pay for it > >> > with real cash and make structural adjustments if necessary to bring in > >> > the revenue to pay for things like this. > >> > > >> > And I don't have a problem with us making an internal hire for things > >> > like this. If volunteers are having fun with meaningful volunteering and > >> > not comparing themselves to a member who happens to be paid for shit > >> > work it shouldn't be a problem. (If volunteers are complaining then it > >> > means they're volunteering on the wrong stuff that we ought to be paying > >> > cash for) > >> > > >> > I do have a big problem with folks embracing the $40 per month price > >> > point for cleaning and garbage just because it makes for convenient > >> > bookkeeping. > >> > > >> > $40 per month is just waaay to little to pay anyone, outside or inside > >> > for that job. > >> > > >> > I don't have an impression for how it went before, but I think we're > >> > just begging for bad quality of service if we stick with slave pricing. > >> > > >> > There's a myth that when Henry Ford doubled the wages of his workers his > >> > company became way more profitable because the workers could buy his own > >> > product. > >> > > >> > In reality, Ford become more profitable because it was easier to get a > >> > lot more productive work out those workers once they were paid more. > >> > (with a higher wages each worker become more replaceable, crappy workers > >> > who didn't improve could be terminated or replaced by attrition with > >> > better workers who wouldn't have been available before because they > >> > worked for higher pay elsewhere) > >> > > >> > (This is why the minimum wage increases in Manitoba, now $10.25/h > >> > [growth well beyond inflation in the last 5 years] has not been a > >> > employment numbers disaster -- employers with super cheap labour are > >> > simply given an incentive to make better use of the labour they've got. > >> > Apparently they teach about hidden potential every business is always > >> > sitting on right away in business school. See the chapter on "fair pay" > >> > from /Filthy Lucre: Economics for people who hate capitalism/ by Josheph > >> > Heath for more info on this subject) > >> > > >> > So, I would like to beg Dave Curry to summon a little more personal > >> > dignity and withdraw the offer for $40/month. Don't debase yourself that > >> > badly Dave, ask us for at least $80/month! > >> > > >> > At $40/month we're just setting ourselves up for sub-par regardless of > >> > who we pay, inside or outside. Something like $80/month isn't very high > >> > either, but it might be enough to get us more or less consistently at a > >> > minimal standard we can live with. > >> > > >> > Dave, if it comes to pass that you keep offering that price, the members > >> > approve of it, *AND* you do end up doing a great job for so little > >> > money, you'll have become a foolish martyr for the wrong cause. Don't. > >> > Serriously, stick to the Skullitron. > >> > > >> > > >> > Mark > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > >> > Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > >> > Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > >> _______________________________________________ > >> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > >> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > >> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > > Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > > Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > > > _______________________________________________ > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ _______________________________________________ SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/
