Hi, Couple of points:
>>You question who am I to question other academics? Well, the academia I >>know does consist of academics holding each other to high standards. I >>didn't get my own degree by being patted on the back every time I >>produced >>a pie chart in Excel. I would agree academics should hold each other to high standards, but academia is not about producing pie charts, and if you seriously think anyone got a degree for producing a pie chart then I don’t know what to say. I hope that part of your reply was meant to be humourous. And I would kindly remind you I said “who are any of us”, I didn’t reference any individual, and without real knowledge of a person and what they do I would be wary of making any judgements. >>Anyone claiming they're oppressed because I call Excel out on its >>bullshit >>does not indicate they take seriously the role of research as an advancer >>of human knowledge. No one said anyone was oppressed - this is you using evocative language and putting words into peoples mouths here. And no one cannot comment on how serious a person is like that, that is just arrogance - just because someone hasn’t had a specific set of training or knowledge of a toolset does not mean they cannot be serious. >>Use Excel if you want. Just don't pretend that you're using sensible >>tools >>and don't ask me to put sugar on top when I tell you you're using crap >>software. I don’t have any hangups about what people use - but if you tell people you are teaching in such a crass and offensive way (“all wrong”,”does not indicate they take seriously”,”training wheels”) then you put them on the defensive - part of the SWC code of conduct is to be respectful to all - this doesn’t mean “put sugar on top” but it does mean treat them courteously - they understand their field, just because they haven’t used a tool doesn’t make them stupid or deserving of derision it just means its an opportunity to learn for them. And an opportunity for us as educators to learn how to put points across in a constructive fashion. Regards, Alistair ----------------------------------------------- Alistair Grant EPCC Rm 2403 0131-650-5028 ----------------------------------------------- Thought to be thought about: Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are. (John Wooden) On 05/05/2016 13:26, "Timothy Rice" <[email protected]> wrote: >This conversation is tending towards the more heated side. Heeding Greg's >moderation, I will only address one part which I think is important. > >> I think that this statement is utterly out of order - one) the quote >>prior >> to this never claimed to be perfectly happy and two) who are any of us >>to >> judge who should or shouldn’t be in academia - you don’t know what they >> are using it for, what their background is or anything to contribute to >> saying whether anyone should be academia. > >The fact of the matter is, Excel has been demonstrated time and again to >be >not just inefficient for scientific analysis but usually out-and-out >wrong. > >Give me spreadsheet software that is not provably wrong and I will accept >it as a useful tool for some types of researchers working with some types >of data. I can see how the spreadsheet format can sometimes be useful; >it's >just that at the moment there isn't much good spreadsheet software out >there. > >Anyone claiming they're oppressed because I call Excel out on its bullshit >does not indicate they take seriously the role of research as an advancer >of human knowledge. > > >As for students, they can be transitioned into better tools more smoothly >if they are directed to take a Data Carpentry course. There is a reason I >don't teach Data Carpentry myself! ;) > > >~ Tim -- The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC005336. _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list [email protected] http://lists.software-carpentry.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.software-carpentry.org
