This dives right into the philosophical questions of why a society
should force a company to do "a little more" to enable accessibility. It
can be argued from a purely financial aspect. If enabling my software
allows a certain community to not only move towards integration in
society but actually becoming a contributing member then it's worth my
company being .001% less profitable. Historically, in most cultures
those with vision, auditory, motor or cognitive constraints have been
supported by the same infrastructure as widows and orphans. It was a
"cost center" deemed worthy by society. Today, with assistive
technology, we can not only expire that historical worldview but a blind
user can get a good job as an information worker and support his or her
family. This is a new thing in human history. Of course it's not done
yet but it certainly makes sense that society should require investment
in accessibility in order to convert some classes from consumers to
producers. So the NFB v. Target lawsuit here in the states for
accessibility of their website isn't so much about a blind user being
able to order toilet paper, it more about enabling another person to be
independently sufficient in all aspects of life.
In addition we also discovered that many of these enabling techniques or
technologies have been cross cutting where there was additional benefits
that had not been previously looked for or expected. The classic example
is the wheelchair curb cut that turns out to be great for shopping carts
and baby carriages. When I talk to other web developers I point out the
trinity of accessibility, search engine optimization and
internationalization. They are symbiotic so doing good accessibility
will also give you higher rankings on Google and ease
internationalization. In other words, doing the right thing nets
benefits besides the obvious ones you intended.
CB
Scott Bresnahan wrote:
Hi,
I didn't expect to start a philosophical debate here, but I think my
analogy between wheelchair ramps and accessible commercial software is
worthy discussion. Many websites and applications, like the iTunes
store are analogous to your brick and mortar HomeDepot or Borders
Music and Books. And yes, adding a wheelchair ramp does cost money
and is the price you pay for doing business. Now, as for finding an
alternative product, in the business world, Office is the standard and
there is no alternative. . Is it that unreasonable to expect
Microsoft to spend a little money to make their product accessible?
What about your online bank?
The misconception that the blind community constitutes enough of a
market to sway industry to provide support based on our buying power
is grossly naive. We are not worth it. I know, because I am guilty
of it in my own development profession. the need for 508 compliance
is the only thing that coaxes my company to provide accessible software.
Consider the fact that if the Mac market can't force the market to
create cross platform versions of software, how can the blind
community expect accessible software? Consider the cost of the LCD
enlargers that sell for up to 10x more than an LCD camera that does
almost the same thing. The higher cost is due to the fact that the
blind community can't cover the cost of development.
Now, ironically, I agree that lawsuits are bad and way too prevalent
in the US. But, I also think that proper legislation is the
equivalent of a kick in the pants so companies will do the right
thing. Too bad the mortgage industry didn't have a little common
sense legislation lately.
So, that is my response to my friendly over polite Canadian.
I work hard, but I do need some government help and societal help
sometimes too.
In about a minute, I fear I will be wishing I could unsend this. lol
Best,
Scott,
.
Call me an over-polite canadian, but I think that beating people over
the head with legislation is expensive, time consuming, and
counter-productive. I look at it a bit like this. From what I've
read, tost is a 60-80 dollar piece of software. If I send off a
polite email for information and get the brush this other guy got,
I'd take david's tack. Find something that works. Reply to the
company and say, "thank you. Based on your disappointingly cold
response, I looked further and found a program equivilant to yours
and they are developing in the direction I need for my productivity.
I'll be recomending users avoide yours and try theres."
It's really a let down that high profile companies like microsoft and
roxeo aren't leading the way on the accessibility front, but
fortunately for us, they don't have a monopoly.
Best,
Erik
On 30-Mar-08, at 11:58 AM, Scott Bresnahan wrote:
Hi,
You know, has anyone considered the lack of VO support an issue of
public accommodation under ADA? It is not as if the technology
doesn't exist to support VO easily and cheaply in today's modern
development environments. Granted, I can see a video or graphical
paint application being beyond VO, but Word or Toast? I think not.
Wow, and talk about deep pockets... I'm surprise no one has thought
about this agains Microsoft.
In the real world one builds ramps for wheelchairs. In the online
world, they need to build VO support fo us!
Sorry, those in the UK, you're Toast. :)
Thinking out loud....
--Scott
after close thought. I may just give them the ultimate baptism of
fire. For my work I am going to be relying on this software and I
would rather get somethingthat works rather than something that
takes space on my mac and wastes time.
so monday morning hopefully I will be launching my plot
heheheheheheeehe mwahahahahahahahahaha ah that felt good
roxio used to be rather accessible as memory serves me under OS
9.2 but hmmm am I seeing a trend in software and companies telling
us to "FLOCK OFF" lol
lew
On 30 Mar 2008, at 18:43, David Poehlman wrote:
Tell them thanks, we are going to and recommending their
competition to mac
users.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lewis Brock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use of Mac
OS X by
theblind" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 1:38 PM
Subject: Re: response from Roxio Technical Support Toast 9 does not
supportthe VoiceOver screen reader app.
I had the very same problem with them and they dont seem to give a
thingybob. whats new there? nothing.
well I think a strong email shound be constructed concerning this
product. after all we should have access to it with voiceover so
come
one where's the problem? roxio....... come here boy. come
on.........
there's a good cd burner lol
lew
On 30 Mar 2008, at 18:35, James Austin wrote:
Well if there ever was a daft response Roxio have it.
Let us know if you need further assistance... well... um... Voice
Over doesn't work with your application so I'd like some assistance
lol.
Sounds like they are not very much interested.
Best
James
E- Mail - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MSN - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Skype - saulky1984
On 30 Mar 2008, at 18:20, Chuck Reichel wrote:
Hi Listers,
Here is response about toast 9 from there tech staff.
I currently use 8.03 only because I've been using Toast since the
last century.
LOL I don't think they even looked at VoiceOver!! 8.03 is more
stable than 6.5 so I thought I would try toast 9 thinking they
have
improved it but I don't think so! May be it is time to "hammer
them" a bit! LOL
PS Their Lightscrib label app not very cool either.
Toast response below;
A Roxio Agent has responded to your ticket! (# 540159)
Thank you for contacting Roxio Technical Support
Toast 9 does not support the VoiceOver screen reader app.
Thanks for contacting Roxio Customer Care. Let us know if you need
further assistance on this issue by clicking the Update button.
Regards,
Roxio Technical Support
<http://www.roxio.com/enu/support>http://www.roxio.com/enu/support
Have you tried our online self-service tools? For instant
support,
please try one of the tools below:
Roxanne -
<http://roxio.com/en/support/nh/index.jhtml>http://roxio.com/en/support/nh/index.jhtml
Discussion Groups -
<http://forums.support.roxio.com/>http://forums.support.roxio.com
Knowledgebase - <http://search.roxio.com/>http://search.roxio.com
We are always looking for ways to improve so please click on the
link below to complete our online support survey.
<http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?
sm=gogk1iuGIIxICD_2fyt0p0pg_3d_3d>http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=gogk1iuGIIxICD_2fyt0p0pg_3d_3d
Thank you for your comments and we appreciate the feedback
dpd
What's Next?
1. Log into
<https://selfserve.roxio.com/>https://selfserve.roxio.com
2. Click on View Your Help Ticket History.
3. Click on your ticket number to view the response and update.
Regards,
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RoxAnn
**This e-mail is an automatic response and cannot be responded
to.**
Chuck Reichel
954-742-0019
<http://www.soundpicturerecording.com/high/index.htm>http://www.soundpicturerecording.com/high/index.htm
Lewis Brock
Totally Blind musician and composer of 21st century music
PHONE: +44 07857 352828
E-MAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
SKYPE: lewisjbrock
Lewis Brock
Totally Blind musician and composer of 21st century music
PHONE: +44 07857 352828
E-MAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
SKYPE: lewisjbrock
----Scott
