> Sounds like “Phong Robotics” is just jealous that "Something New
> How about we just be excellent to each other *spews club mate all over screen* That was impressive, thank you, for that dichotomy. I've tried to not get involved in this since I don't actually think I'm a big part of the SYNHAK community besides knowing a handful of you hakkers, but watching all of this evolve has been really unsettling so I've been talking to some of you wonderful nerds. Subleasing the space's resources for private usage is antithetical to how a hackerspace's community should work, and this is a frightening precedence, regardless of who is acting in good faith, or who is not. Torrie has repeatedly brought up valid points which have been spat down by what appears to be a group of people who are content with the the idea that SYNHAK should be a private enterprise rather than a community resource as it was supposed to be when founded. The fact that the board feels that it is okay to sidestep membership vote makes me think that the membership should have real reservations about trusting the board leadership to properly lead the space in a trustworthy fashion. When put in contrast with the thread regarding AWS funding, it seems like Justin and Torrie and possibly other membership really have differences in opinion on how the community should function, and I would suggest a mediation process to reach a healthy middle ground, rather than watching the board and officers shit at each other all day. Past that, though, the board has a 501c3 obligation, the membership should really put some thought in to whether the board is capable of fulfilling that obligation rather than focusing on short-term gains at the cost of long term health of community and space. - Ryan Rix Shit head San Francisco tech worker alex kot <alexk...@yahoo.com> writes: > Sounds like “Phong Robotics” is just jealous that "Something New > Entertainment" thought of it first. Seriously, what do you propose > would be a good approach? All I hear is bickering about what should > have been done. Yes a mistake was made; we need to fix it so the board > doesn't do it again. Ripping up the lease and moving his stuff out is > unnecessary. Legally we are in the same boat as riding out the 6 > months vs. kicking it out now, am I wrong? How about we just be > excellent to each other and deal with the issue without creating any > unneeded anger. > > On Thursday, March 6, 2014 1:28 PM, Torrie Fischer > <tdfisc...@hackerbots.net> wrote: > On Thursday, March 06, 2014 09:35:44 alex kot wrote: >> Craig makes a good point. The way I see it all your doing is > creating >> unnecessary drama, let the 6 months ride out. Justin did this whole > thing >> out of good intent, probably caused him more of headache then if he > just >> spent his money at the place it was already at. Issue is already > done we >> don't need to create any more issues after this. > > I am thoroughly concerned that you see this as "unnecessary". > > Any other board member might as well go and sign some other contract > that > leases out the space without public discussion. What is preventing > someone > from leasing out that front room to Phong Robotics? Letting this go > sets us up > for unfathomably awful problems in the future. If I pull out a a wad > of cash > and offer $500 on the spot for the exclusive rights to use that room > for six > months, and Craig signs the contract, there is nothing that can be > done about > it. According to this, they don't need to ask the membership if its > alright, > discuss the terms of the lease in advance with the board, or even > confer with > the board in any fashion. Just a brief casual mention at the end of a > weekly > meeting that seems to suffice. > > Heck, it doesn't even have to be Phong Robotics. If OSC Tech Lab wants > space, > and the deal is sweet enough, there is nothing stopping them from > slicing up > the space into private and common spaces. > > Money for a new laser cutter? Sure! You just need to give a > corporation the > exclusive right to access a significant portion of the floor space. No > need to > consult the members. No need for a board vote. Don't talk to the > treasurer, > they won't mind the hurdles. Lawyers are overrated, too. > > The road to ruin is paved with good intentions. > >> >> >> >> On Thursday, March 6, 2014 12:14 PM, Craig Bergdorf > <mm1...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> imo a 990-t must be filed either way, (not cashing the checks means > nothing >> with a sublease that has the building owners signature on it (as he > will be >> filin it eitherway)), so why not just run it for 6 months. afaik it's > too >> late to do anything else (legally) without pretending events didn't > happen >> which could get us in real trouble. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 12:02 PM, a l <leit...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> I'm not sure how you can claim consensus, when as you've pointed > out,there >> hadn't been a vote. >> >My point was that, as far as I understand, just because activity is > taxable >> >does not mean we cannot conduct it.we just need to file and collect > taxes >> >on these activities. As I pointed out this is additional work and > the >> >costs and benefits must be weighed. I have requested that this be > brought >> >to the vote since it was brought up in discussion in January. This > has not >> >happened. Regards, >> >Andrew L >> >On Mar 6, 2014 10:32 AM, "Torrie Fischer" > <tdfisc...@hackerbots.net> wrote: >> > >> >On Wednesday, March 05, 2014 10:00:39 a l wrote: >> >>> Thanks for the relevant sources and calm voicing of concerns. To > this >> >>> end: >> >>> Just because things require taxing does not mean we cannot > conduct them. >> >>> We >> >>> would just need to weigh the benefits and time involved. >> >> >> >>As the chief financial officer who is ultimately responsible for >> >>maintaining our tax records, I would very much rather not bring > about any >> >>potential for audits. This is *not worth it* and will require > substantial >> >>effort to convince me to deal with it, unless someone else wants > to >> >>doocratically step up and handle any unrelated business income and >> >>maintain that for the next few years. The Champions are also > welcome to >> >>initiate a coup to usurp my position. >> >> >> >>We lose physical space, I lose more time for non-treasurer things, > I'm >> >>responsible for even more legal overhead, future treasurers and >> >>secretaries >> >>will be responsible for maintaining the paper trail for the next > few years >> >>to prevent audit, etc. >> >> >> >>And we want volunteers to handle this? I believe I'm exceptionally > lucky >> >>among hackerspace treasurers in that I have a flexible situation > of >> >>office space, financial advice, and employment. >> >> >> >>Is this $600 worth the pain, including this heated argument that > has been >> >>going on for over a week, tearing us apart, and making us look >> >>dysfunctional to the whole freaking planet? >> >> >> >>I'm confident that the community of SYNHAK has reached consensus: > Do not >> >>do >> >>this. >> >> >> >>As the Treasurer for SYNHAK, Inc, I wish to inform the board that > they may >> >>disregard their treasurer's advice and concerns at their own risk > at the >> >>upcoming meeting. I am legally obligated by the bylaws to serve > the board, >> >>which I feel I have been doing faithfully and to the best of my > abilities. >> >> >> >>I think many would agree that I am usually the first to give the > benefit >> >>of >> >>the doubt regarding trustworthy actions. As a Member, I wish to > inform the >> >>board that the individuals involved have lost my trust and the > trust of >> >>many others for not having an open discussion about this up front. >> >> >> >>> Regards, >> >>> Andrew L >> >>> >> >>> On Mar 5, 2014 9:24 AM, "Justin Herman" <just...@gmail.com> > wrote: >> >>> > Also since this has been brought up before... >> >>> > >> >>> > ...the following activities are specifically excluded from the >> >>> > definition >> >>> > >> >>> > of unrelated trade or business: >> >>> > - *Volunteer Labor*: Any trade or business is excluded in > which >> >>> > substantially all the work is performed for the organization >> >>> > without >> >>> > compensation. Some fundraising activities, such as volunteer >> >>> > operated >> >>> > bake >> >>> > sales, may meet this exception. *[Bake SALE at the proposed >> >>> > Auction?]* >> >>> > - *Convenience of Members*: Any trade or business is excluded > that >> >>> > is >> >>> > carried on by an organization described in section 501(c)(3) > or by >> >>> > a >> >>> > governmental college or university primarily for the > convenience of >> >>> > its >> >>> > members, students, patients, officers, or employees. A typical >> >>> > example >> >>> > of >> >>> > this is a school cafeteria. *[Selling Arduinos or other > consumables >> >>> > in >> >>> > a vending area?]* >> >>> > - *Selling Donated Merchandise*: Any trade or business is > excluded >> >>> > that consists of selling merchandise, substantially all of > which >> >>> > the >> >>> > organization received as gifts or contributions. Many thrift > shop >> >>> > operations of exempt organizations would meet this exception. > *[All >> >>> > the donated Computers?]* >> >>> > >> >>> > > http://www.irs.gov/Charities-&-Non-Profits/Charitable-Organizations/Un >> >>> > rela >> >>> > ted-Business-Income-Tax-Exceptions-and-Exclusions> >> >>> > >> >>> > On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 9:12 AM, Justin Herman > <just...@gmail.com> > wrote: >> >>> >> This has already be researched.... >> >>> >> >> >>> >> http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1828.pdf >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Page 17 Section Rental Income: >> >>> >> >> >>> >> "Generally, income derived from the rental of real property > and >> >>> >> incidental personal property is excluded from unrelated > business >> >>> >> income." >> >>> >> >> >>> >> It goes on to state HOW it would not qualify. (if there is a >> >>> >> mortgage, if >> >>> >> personal services are rendered, if a parking lot is charged) >> >>> >> >> >>> >> I thought that this might not relate to us as this doc is > targeted >> >>> >> for >> >>> >> religious orgs. So I called the IRS before and they stated > that this >> >>> >> is >> >>> >> for >> >>> >> ALL 501(c)(3) orgs. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 9:03 AM, Devin Wolfe > <degerov...@yahoo.com> > wrote: >> >>> >>> Can you please provide your source? >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> Thanks, >> >>> >>> Devin >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> Sent with AquaMail for Android >> >>> >>> http://www.aqua-mail.com >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> On March 5, 2014 8:55:49 AM Torrie Fischer >> >>> >>> <tdfisc...@hackerbots.net> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> wrote: >> >>> >>> I'm wearing my treasurer hat for this. >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>>> After some digging around, I've come to the conclusion that > leasing >> >>> >>>> out >> >>> >>>> this space is incredibly likely to be considered a > violation of our >> >>> >>>> 501c3 >> >>> >>>> status as it is unrelated income. That $100/mo will need to > be >> >>> >>>> taxed >> >>> >>>> and >> >>> >>>> somehow proven that leasing out our space to non-hacking > purposes >> >>> >>>> will >> >>> >>>> further our mission of providing infrastructure to creative > people. >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >>>> I'm not cashing any checks that arrive. >> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> >>>> Discuss mailing list >> >>> >>>> Discuss@synhak.org >> >>> >>>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> >>> Discuss mailing list >> >>> >>> Discuss@synhak.org >> >>> >>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> >>> > >> >>> > _______________________________________________ >> >>> > Discuss mailing list >> >>> > Discuss@synhak.org >> >>> > https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >> >>Discuss mailing list >> >>Discuss@synhak.org >> >>https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> > >> >_______________________________________________ >> >Discuss mailing list >> >Discuss@synhak.org >> >https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Discuss mailing list >> Discuss@synhak.org >> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss@synhak.org > https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
