Gosh... Now I am scared... >From my perspective I have a simple problem (I need a table added in between 2 tables that are currently using one table.
But it seems that I either need thousands of dollars to have it done, or years of learning in order to figure out how to do it... :( Maybe I should get another cart that does this thing I need done... Robert P. Reil Managing Director, Motorcyclecarbs.com, Inc. 4292 Country Garden Walk NW Kennesaw, Ga. 30152 Office 770-974-8851 Fax 770-974-8852 www.motorcyclecarbs.com -----Original Message----- From: Steve Drucker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 8:27 AM To: discussion@acfug.org Subject: RE: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning Cold Fusion Yes, Cody has many very valid points -- AbleCommerce has its own mechanisms for customization...many of which I didn't particularly care for, personally. Also, you should note that AbleCommerce is really and truly a Java business-logic layer with a ColdFusion-based UI tier. That is to say, you will not be able to view the source of any of the AbleCommerce Java classes and most of your CF work will revolve around using <cfobject> or CreateObject() to instantiate the proper classes and pass valid parameters and datatypes (javaCast()). You'll also need to properly interpret their documentation, generated with JavaDocs. I don't even really consider working with AbleCommerce to be CF programming...it's more of an exercise in leveraging Java from within CF, and working with their administrative UI. Hopefully the CF-tier has improved a bit from the last time that I used it (4.32). At that stage it was a really bad port of (obviously) JSP that didn't take advantage of simpler (and more scalable) CF features -- particularly with respect to form validation and caching instantiated components in session scope for faster execution. The site that we developed in Ablecommerce 4.32 is here: http://www.aacu.org/publications/index.cfm Regards, Steve Drucker CEO Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com Adobe / Macromedia / Google / Paperthin Premier Consulting and Training Partner -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cody Wehunt Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 8:13 PM To: discussion@acfug.org Subject: RE: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning Cold Fusion I think all the comments so far are spot on. Your learning style will definitely dictate what method is best for you. However I think that you need to look at your problem from several angles. Some initial thoughts below: 1) You need to review and read the documentation at ablecommerce on how to make modifications that will not break when doing upgrades to their products in the future. 2) You definitely want to make sure that you abstract as much as possible your changes from their code and database tables. 3) For the project you mentioned you will likely need to know a significant amount about database design, not just SQL and Cold Fusion. Cody -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Reil Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 6:56 AM To: discussion@acfug.org Subject: RE: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning Cold Fusion Thank you all for your comments. I have 6.1 loaded on 2 servers with each running AbleCommerce. I need to at some point consider 7.0 upgrading, but at another time. I have Forta's Construction kit, and his advanced book. Some list members have given me a couple links. I am using MySQL 4.1x And Dreamweaver MX 2k4 is loaded. I am a self taught MCSE 4.0, Cisco, and HP certified so self taught is no problem for me and like most have said I basically just started loading software and started using it and making it work per the exercises. So I guess CF will be the same thing. All of my needs for CF are solely to make my AbleCommerce app work better, and for us to create some internal tools like purchasing apps, add columns to the AC framework to hold vendor csv data, create research tools like "Where Used" (we had a LONG discussion on that last week!) etc. So I really don't have time to learn a lot, just enough to get by or even maybe just enough to direct someone to what I want if it's too deep. Based on this info are there any further tidbits? Other than that I guess I am ready to get into the meat of the Web Constuction Kit I would say from reading you all's notes and start playing with our data. Im thinking a relevant project for the company may be good. Something simple like a Phone Support lookup tool (product search)? As far as DB Design, Normalizing etc I don't see I would need that unless I am able to build that Where Used DB as previously discussed. Or if I add that one to many, or many to many as was also dicussed to insert that "Vendor_Products" table into the AC framework but Im afraid of how to rebuild it if AC has an upgrade available later. Robert P. Reil Managing Director, Motorcyclecarbs.com, Inc. 4292 Country Garden Walk NW Kennesaw, Ga. 30152 Office 770-974-8851 Fax 770-974-8852 www.motorcyclecarbs.com -----Original Message----- From: Dean H. Saxe Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 11:51 PM To: discussion@acfug.org Subject: Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning Cold Fusion By the way, if you haven't seen it yet I have a little advice on how *not* to write code. The company I work for, Foundstone (A division of McAfee), has just release HacmeShipping. The tool was written by me, along with some support from Jeremy Allen. It shows how *not* to write CFMX 7 code under Model-Glue, though mostly from the perspective of security concerns with CFML. You can download the code from http://www.foundstone.com/resources/s3i_tools.htm along with installation instructions and an white paper, written by Jeremy, showing how various web application attacks work against the application. For some real fun, download HacmeBooks (J2EE) and HacmeBank (.Net) to see how the three work together using web services and how all of them can be attacked using similar paradigms. For someone learning CFML, this is a good tool to show you what you shouldn't be doing from a security perspective. Hopefully everyone learns something from my "mistakes"! -dhs -----Original Message----- From: Steven Ross Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 9:52 PM To: discussion@acfug.org Subject: Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning Cold Fusion I read somewhere that the best way to learn is having to do something... ie: your fired if you don't learn coldfusion. Hah, there is some nice learning pressure for you. I would say that the best (and cheapest) way to learn CF (or any programming language) is to read a book and try to build something while having a mentor. This helped a ton when I learned java... course I did also take an online class that sorta forced me to do the material. the great thing about the cf list is that it can definately help you out when you are lost! -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 9:27 PM To: discussion@acfug.org Subject: Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning Cold Fusion Whle some learn best by book, some of us don't. Even in college, I had to write notes from my readings and to study I would rewrite my notes, as retarded as that sounds. Just reading nor hearing a teacher in class make things click for me. It is a weird combination of all of those, plus doing it. Even now, I am listening to CF podcasts, articles, keeping an eye on lists like these and local user groups in order to attempt to keep the skillset sharp. So whatever method works for you is what you should do. But always keep some reference books handy and start building your list of bookmarks! :) Mary-Catherine -----Original Message----- From: Douglas Knudsen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 9:11 PM To: discussion@acfug.org Subject: Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning Cold Fusion I actually had to watch that CBT back in 2000 when I entered the CF world. 'SkillBuilding With ColdFusion' IIRC was the title. It was for 4 or 4.5 version but the basic ideas still apply today. I know I have a copy around, but alas those copyright rulez! :) Luckily we have electrity now, so its ok :) I'd concur with others on this. Hands-on experimenting with some books on the side is a great approach. If you are dead against self-teaching look into Fig Leaf for sure. DK On 6/17/06, Charlie Arehart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Thank you for that, Dean. I'm especially pleased to hear that I've > been of help to you, seeing how much you now give back to the > community. And that is > indeed the way it ought to be. I was motivated to get into user groups > because I learned so much from them, starting in the early 80's in my > mainframe career--yes, we had user groups back then, and mailing > lists, and > even electricity. :-) Seriously, though, that cycle of learning and > giving back has been so valuable. > > As to Jeremy's suggestion in his earlier note regarding SQL books, I > would have to counter that Joe Celko's books are definitely more for > those who have achieved not just the basics but really is ready to go > well beyond that. Certainly great stuff, but like recommending the > Gang of Four book as > someone's first foray in to Design Patterns (Head First would be a > better choice there). Instead, I'd recommend Ben Forta's "Teach > Yourself SQL in 10 > Minutes". If you read the spotlight review at Amazon, mine from 2000, you'll > see why I like it so much, and it's in its 3rd edition now. > > Otherwise, Jeremy makes fine points, as confirmed and added to by Dean > and Rick. > > As for books, you mentioned Ben's CFWACK and it's indeed a classic. > You can > find discounted copies of that, and The CFMX Bible (done by the > Churvises, Hal Helms, and myself), and many other good CF books (like > the Oreilly one) > online. > > And don't forget the free manuals that come with CF, and more than > just the > "reference". There's a real "user guide" to CF, CFML, coding, and > more, that's several hundred pages long. You can get it in print and > read it online in HTML and PDF. In CFMX 7 the manual's called the > "ColdFusion MX Developer's Guide", and in 6.1 "Developing ColdFusion MX Applications" (and > something yet again in CF5). It and all the docs are available online > in PDF > and HTML form (and can even be purchased in print) at > http://www.adobe.com/support/documentation/en/coldfusion/documentation.html > > Don't forget, as well, the example apps that come with CF (an option > on installation). They're not paragons of good design, but as has been conveyed > in this thread, there's learning to get started, and then there's > learning to advance. CF7 in particular has an especially nice > flash-based interface to help with its getting started resources. > > Finally, though it may be old, there was a CD produced by Allaire > called the > SkillBuilder. I would bet you could find it. There's a more recent > version of something similar, a video that does cover CFMX, at: > > http://www.learnwebdevelopment.com/intro_to_coldfusion_mx.html > > I've not used either of them but the price for the latter is right to > fit in > your budget. > > /charlie > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean H. > Saxe > Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 4:45 PM > To: discussion@acfug.org > Subject: RE: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning Cold Fusion > > > I'm with Jeremy on this. I'm a book learner, read a book, implement, > read more, implement more. I'm a self-taught programmer, unless you > consider taking Pascal in college in 1990 part of my career (I don't). > Classes are helpful, but they are expensive. Most classes I see on > any technical area > of expertise are in the neighborhood of $750 - $1000/8 hour day. > > That having been said, the best addition to books and trying new > things has > always been having a mentor to work with. Someone who knows XYZ technology > just a bit better than you so you can learn from his or her experience. My > first boss, Eric Palmer, was that person for me WRT DB design and SQL. > My next boss helped me really get my feet wet with OO and Java. WRT > application security, I was on my own for a while but eventually found some > people who have helped me grow in that space as well. I've also > learned a lot from people in ACFUG over the years too. Cameron > Childress, Jeremy Allen (who I'm happy to work with now), Charlie > Arehart, Shawn Gorrell and others have all been great resources over the years. > > Good luck Rick! > -dhs > > On June 17, 2006, Rick Lansford wrote: > > > I took a class, but looking back, it would have been just as easy to > > learn on my own. However, I am not in the league with the others on > > this list (I still pretty much use a basic to mid-level programming > > technique). So if your goal is to get to their level I think it > > would take some formal training. Just to let you know, you can do a > > lot (and I mean a lot) just knowing the basic aspects of CF and > > having a pretty fair understanding of SQL and DB design. > > > > Rick > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Robert Reil > > Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 2:25 PM > > To: discussion@acfug.org > > Subject: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning Cold Fusion > > > > > > Here's an easy one! > > > > > > > > Whats the easiest cost effective way to learn how to get up and > > rolling in CF? > > > > Budget a couple hundred. > > > > I have servers, and software. Should I take a class, a web school, > > or use Forta's Web App Construction site? > > > > > > > > Opinions and links welcome... > > > > > > > > Robert P. Reil > > > > Managing Director, > > > > Motorcyclecarbs.com, Inc. > > > > 4292 Country Garden Walk NW > > > > Kennesaw, Ga. 30152 > > > > Office 770-974-8851 > > > > Fax 770-974-8852 > > > > www.motorcyclecarbs.com > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ > > http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform > > > > For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists > > Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ > > List hosted by FusionLink > > ------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com -------------------------------------------------------------
