The recent posts on this "CSS-a little off topic" thread re upgrading browsers was, I think, triggered by my comment/tip to Dusty to use Firefox as a development browser while coding his CSS style sheets. My reasoning for this was based on (sometimes painful) personal experience of having "styled away" on a site-writing the CSS, using IE 6 as my dev. Browser. Probably because it was the default browser in my CF Studio 5.
Everyone knows CSS can be tricky and a pain in the booty sometimes to make it do what you want it to do when it used to be *so easy* to use Table tags. So struggle I would and ultimately it worked and I was happy-until I finally thought to look at the site with other browsers such as Netscape (not 4 heaven forbid) and everything blew up. The problem I ultimately found was that IE had its own way of doing things which were often non-standard with respect to W3C guidelines. Okay, so my site worked in 80% of the browsers out there. Big deal it didn't work for the minority. One day though-before I was aware of the disaster I had coded, my client called me up and wanted to know why their (very expensive) website didn't work at home-but it does at the office. IE at the office, NS at home! So I learned a few lessons here. Now I write CSS using the most standards compliant browser, recommended by many experts within the CSS community, Firefox. AND I check against IE as I go. When I find a condition that is correct standards-wise but fails adversely in IE I first look at my standards-correct definitions to see if there is an alternate approach that still produces the desired layout/style and works in both the "standards compliant" browser and IE at the same time. If I can't easily do that and I need to incorporate an "IE hack" I do so, checking to see that it is still working in Firefox AND I add comment lines in my CSS code flagging attention to the non-standard/hacked definitions. I do this so if and when I need to go back and "fix" the CSS due to a browser upgrade, etc. I can see exactly where to go to do my fixing. I now feel looking back on my learning curve with CSS that ultimately your best product will be one that is as fully standards compliant as possible with as few hacks or work-arounds as possible. I think the evidence that Microsoft's IE 7 team has worked closely with the W3C to (finally) become compliant is testament of merits of this approach. Just like Steven says, make your CSS standards compliant now or fix it later. Your choice. I agree, good advice. Dan Kaufman -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven Ross Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 12:08 PM To: discussion@acfug.org Subject: Re: Re: Re: [ACFUG Discuss] css - a little off topic I didn't mean to insinuate that IE 7 is coming out so eveyone will upgrade... i was just making the point that if you intend to future proof your css build for the standard and work backwards because eventually the non compliant browsers will die off and (hopefully) the compliant ones will take over. If you do it the other way around you are just going to end up fixing it later. On 10/4/06, allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > IE6 won't be going anywhere for a long time - do you really think corporate > america will upgrade the minute 7 is final? > > Who is running win2k in 2006? :) > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Steven Ross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: discussion@acfug.org > Sent: Wednesday, October 4, 2006 8:55:55 AM > Subject: Re: Re: [ACFUG Discuss] css - a little off topic > > > Yeah i follow this same track... easier for me to get it right > (epecially since ie 6 will go away at some point) and support the > standards then hack backwards to get IE compatibility. > > > > On 10/4/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Yes, when it comes to CSS, IE stinks. You can write relatively standard > > code in Firefox (heck even Safari), and standards are good. But since the > > majority of people choose IE, you then have to come up with > fixes. Probably > > more time consuming, but I start in FF, to get more standard oriented > code. > > Then I go to IE to make things work there. Usually cursing how bad it's > > standards support is. Bias, nooooo..... > > > > mcg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > 10/03/2006 04:55 PM > > > > Please respond to > > discussion@acfug.org > > > > > > To discussion@acfug.org > > > > cc > > > > Subject Re: [ACFUG Discuss] css - a little off topic > > > > > > > > > > > > Dan - I have to disagree with you :) As someone who has been doing html > > since it started, my advice is always to either: > > a. work in IE because if you get it right there, you can get it right > > anywhere > > b. check both at the same time. > > > > Checking Firefox only will cause more time/work on you in the long run. > > > > Of course, as my first professor said, there are 1,000 ways to utica. :) > > > > Also, technically to save a line of code - you could bring the > margin-left > > and right into one line of code. And you could also do: > > > > margin: top right bottom left > > > > so a typical default is: > > > > margin: 0 auto auto auto > > > > -- Allen > > http://www.htmlcenter.com > > http://www.centernetworks.com > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: Dan Kaufman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: discussion@acfug.org > > Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2006 4:51:48 PM > > Subject: RE: [ACFUG Discuss] css - a little off topic > > > > Dusty, > > > > > > > > Mary Catherine is right about adding to the CSS definition text-align: > > center; (I was a little too quick in my reply) > > > > > > > > #MyDiv > > > > { > > > > margin-left: auto; > > margin-right: auto; > > > > } > > > > > > > > Body > > > > { > > > > text-align: center; > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In general remember Google is your friend. Just Google for CSS Center > > > > > > > > Next, remember you can always View/Page Source for any web page. You see > a > > site that uses CSS, view the page source, if the style sheet is "linked" > > just copy the path, it will be in the <head> section, paste this back into > > your browser and you'll be looking at their CSS for that page/site. Study > > it to see how they positioned and styled elements, etc. > > > > > > > > The biggest headache you'll have is with IE. The problem here is IE often > > follows its own rules and not strict W3C guidelines. So you'll do a page, > > developing with IE and think GREAT it works, only to see the site with > > Netscape or Firefox and it has blown up. This has been my personal > nemesis. > > Until I SWITCHED TO FIREFOX. It really is a better browser. Now I > develop > > my CSS using Firefox and then "tweak" it to work with IE's quirks. > > > > > > > > Good luck, > > > > > > > > Dan Kaufman > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 1:12 PM > > To: discussion@acfug.org > > Subject: Re: [ACFUG Discuss] css - a little off topic > > > > > > > > > > I believe that you have to use margin: auto (or at least right and left) > > for it to play nice in IE. You may also have to put a container around > your > > div with text-align:center. Or you can add that to your BODY tag. (I'm a > > little rusty on this myself) > > > > mcg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dusty Hale <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > 10/03/2006 03:59 PM > > > > > > > > > > Please respond to > > discussion@acfug.org > > > > > > > > To discussion@acfug.org > > > > cc > > > > Subject [ACFUG Discuss] css - a little off topic > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone know how to center a div using css? I should know this and > > maybe just forgot. Google search only produces reference to the text-align > > property. I want to center the box on the page not the content inside the > > box. For example > > > > <div id="mydiv"> > > > > Hello World > > > > </div> > > > > ----------- > > > > /* css code */ > > > > #mydiv { What goes here to make the div box centered on the page. } > > > > > > > > Many thanks, > > > > Dusty > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ > > http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform > > > > For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists > > Archive @ > > http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ > > List hosted by FusionLink > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ > > http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform > > > > For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists > > Archive @ > > http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ > > List hosted by FusionLink > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ > > http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform > > > > For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists > > Archive @ > > http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ > > List hosted by FusionLink > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ > > http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform > > > > For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists > > Archive @ > > http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ > > List hosted by FusionLink > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ > > http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform > > > > For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists > > Archive @ > > http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ > > List hosted by FusionLink > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Steven Ross > web application & interface developer > http://www.zerium.com > [mobile] 404-488-4364 > [fax] 928-484-4364 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ > http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform > > For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists > Archive @ > http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ > List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ > http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform > > For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists > Archive @ > http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ > List hosted by FusionLink > ------------------------------------------------------------- -- Steven Ross web application & interface developer http://www.zerium.com [mobile] 404-488-4364 [fax] 928-484-4364 ------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com ------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com -------------------------------------------------------------
