Donald, Thank you so much for taking the time to explain the situation so thoroughly. I guess it's pretty easy to get confused by where the tools overlap and where they are disjoint. I think I understand better.
To be sure, my original email was focused on the setuptools instability we've seen in the past 6 to 8 weeks, as we rely on that for our CI and deployment automation. I hope is a growing pain and things will settle down in the near term. I know there are big changes going on and these sorts of things can't always be painless. Sincerely, e. On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 12:14 PM Eric Brunson <brun...@brunson.com> wrote: > On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 5:52 PM Donald Stufft <don...@stufft.io> wrote: > > > On Jan 25, 2017, at 12:27 PM, Eric Brunson <brun...@brunson.com> wrote: > > It wasn't until recently the I realized how quickly releases to setuptools > and pip are being made, starting back in mid Dec when much of our > dependency resolution started failing. There were three releases in the > past two days. Four major and 22 minor releases in the past two months. > While I applaud the speed of development and the improvement in these > tools, don't you feel that breaking changes should be advertised better > before release or perhaps we should slow down the cadence for release? > > I think an expectation that every setuptools user in the community start > their day by checking to see if there was a release in the past 24 hours is > a little unreasonable. I've spent a dozen hours since 32.0.0 resolving > breakage in my own projects and assisting other developers in my org with > their setuptools issues, all the while pushing setuptools as the best > practice to do development and distribution. Is this period of breaking > changes a short term thing that we just have to tough out for a few more > weeks? > > Thanks, > e. > > > > I don’t believe that pip is really releasing that quickly. We generally > make 1-2 “major” versions a year that include breaking changes, 2-4 “minor” > releases a year that add new features, and 6-10 patch releases that fix > bugs. To me that feels like a pretty decent pace of balancing not breaking > people and getting new changes into people’s hands and getting rid of > broken or less optimal parts of the code. > > Now, setuptools is releasing faster than pip is and whether that’s a good > thing or not I don’t know. That’s a question for Jason largely :) > > > Hey Donald, > > Thanks for the reply. > > Doesn't pip rely heavily on setuptools? I understand they have different > origins, but I thought that since pip was moved under the purview of PYPA a > lot of work was being done to converge the projects. When I run a pip -e > one of the last message I see is "running setuptools.py develop", which > isn't really a dependency, but can certainly cause people to infer that the > problem is with pip and not know setuptools. Even the release notes > Matthias references mentions pip as though it might be affected. > > If pip doesn't rely on setuptools, does that mean we have two separate and > possibly different dependency resolution algorithms? > > Sincerely, > e. > > _______________________________________________ > Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig >
_______________________________________________ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
