My actionable input: I agree with Myrle, I'd prioritize having language simplification in websites and docs, and I'd like to explore we draft recommendations in how to write inclusive and effective emails (since everything happens in the mailing list).
My non-actionable input: As a non-native speaker, joining long elaborated email threads is difficult, daunting and scary. I struggle to destill all points and ideas, specially in threads that are not in tree structure. I don't know who responded to who and what points got lost where. This is one of the primary reasons why I don't like email. People also tend to write unnecessarly long emails. I'd disagree with the assumption that if someone is highly educated we could handle these conversations. I have a Masters degree and I struggle with long conversations and some words. I speak 4 languages and my struggle with all of them is the same. I am not a language person. This is why I always use bullets in my emails, I try to order my thoughts and give them sequence. On Fri, May 31, 2019, 1:20 PM Alex Harui <aha...@adobe.com.invalid> wrote: > I've never tried to live in a foreign country, but when I've traveled to > places where I have already learned some of the language, simple signs are > definitely helpful, but even more helpful are friendly people who figure > out I'm not fluent and choose their own words to help me understand and > learn. > > My 2 cents, > -Alex > > On 5/30/19, 11:45 PM, "Myrle Krantz" <my...@apache.org> wrote: > > I do think our focus, with respect to simplifying our language, needs > to be > on websites and documentation rather than on mailing list > communications. > > I’ve been in Germany for nearly 20 years. As such I’ve developed a lot > of > habits for speaking with non-Native speakers of English. And I still > slip > up on a regular basis. > > From the other side, I speak excellent German. But I usually don’t even > bother with the 200 euro question on “Wer wird Millionär?” (Who wants > to > be a millionaire?) I just don’t have much chance when we’re talking > about > German children’s rhymes and old television shows; I didn’t spend my > childhood here. Things that feel *really* basic to a native speaker, > often > just aren’t. > > That makes this an area where „testing“ is necessary: you won’t really > be > able to tell where you’re losing people until you actually do lose > them. So > people need to feel safe saying “I’m confused; can you say it > differently > please?” > > Best, > Myrle > > On Thu, May 30, 2019 at 5:28 PM Patricia Shanahan <p...@acm.org> > wrote: > > > There has been a discussion on board@, subject "[Sidebar] [D&I] > Example > > of exclusion from debate", about writing English in a style that > will be > > accessible to as many ASF participants as possible. > > > > Tools for evaluating writing have been mentioned. > > > > LIX index: > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FLix_(readability_test&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Cc649cee25ecb44af958108d6e5938265%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636948819043273578&sdata=I5ur8kQPQbft33SjGC2IO3NlXPYDn5V8djznW6EAm18%3D&reserved=0) > > > > Gunning-Fog: > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.webfx.com%2Ftools%2Fread-able%2Fgunning-fog.html&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Cc649cee25ecb44af958108d6e5938265%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636948819043273578&sdata=doarWUmgR6y8Nmf1UnymjUX8yyX9HHO8BmJpUVBqVbI%3D&reserved=0 > > > > I have a concern about both of those. They seem to be keyed to the > > sequence in which children develop written language skills in school. > > > > Most ASF participants are educated adults, typically very > sophisticated > > readers and writers of at least one language. My question, especially > > for those who are not completely fluent in written English, is > whether > > the same things give them difficulty. > > > > I have studied French, and can read it a bit. Complex sentence > structure > > and multi-syllable words are no problem for me. Colloquial > expressions > > and cultural references, even using single syllable words and short > > sentences, are much harder to understand. > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: diversity-unsubscr...@apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: diversity-h...@apache.org > > > > > > >
