Adrian Holovaty wrote: > On 6/1/06, James Bennett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> It's a simple truth that you can't please all of the people all of the >> time, so at some point in any development process you have to sit down >> and mark out three groups: > > James, you really hit it on the head here. My personal belief is that > Django is first and foremost a programmer's tool, and I am more > interested in optimizing it for experienced Web developers than for > people who have never written a computer program. It would be > fantastic if Django *were* easy enough to use that non-programmers > could use it, but we shouldn't go out of our way to introduce > high-level beginner-friendly features at the expense of confusing and > frustrating experienced developers. It's a fine line. You're right to > note that we should keep that fundamental focus. > > I hope this doesn't get interpreted as a slight against > non-developers. Ideally developers and non-developers alike would find > Django to be a useful tool -- and, actually, that's already happening. > But as we develop the framework further, we shouldn't introduce > functionality that appeals to the novices at the expense of > frustrating the experienced developers. > > Adrian
*COMPACT* So, why not create an option for "startproject", to keep everyone (you, me, the unexperienced, the experienced) happy? Flexibility and freedom of choice is a nice thing: $ django-admin.py startproject eval quick-start $ django-admin.py startproject eval # uses standard-project This would allow to simplify the quick-start: http://case.lazaridis.com/multi/wiki/DjangoProductEvaluation And this would additionally allow users to setup own project-templates. - *THOROUGH* I don't understand why you (all) exaggregate so much with your writings (e.g. "for people who have never written a computer program"). Even if Django targets the highest capable developers (or especially then), simplicity and automations should be provided: http://lazaridis.com/core/product/case.html - Reading your comments, i am wondering if you should possibly correct the home page of django: "Django is a high-level Python Web framework that encourages rapid development and clean, pragmatic design." "It lets you build high-performing, elegant Web applications quickly." "Django focuses on automating as much as possible and adhering to the DRY principle." "Define your data models entirely in Python. You get a rich, dynamic database-access API for free — but you can still write SQL if needed." - Those writings (high-level, quickly, automating, no-SQL) create several expectations to a visitor. Expectations which django currently does not fulfill (at least in the context of a quick-start). This leads to a unnecessary negative User Experience. I don't understand why the team ignores the importancy of a simple quick-start and a positive user-experience (avoid unfulfilled expectation), which is essential to get new users on board. And the steps to achieve this are minimal and will in no way "frustrate experienced developers" (if implemented right). - Notes: this thread referes to: http://groups.google.com/group/django-developers/msg/063681c3abb92441 . -- http://lazaridis.com --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django developers" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-developers -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
