+1, for one simple reason: practicality beats purity.
On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Daniel Ellis <ellis...@gmail.com> wrote:
> +1 - I've had the same issue with sorl thumbnail.
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 7:07 AM, Adam Serafini <a...@gearspotter.com>wrote:
>
>> +1 for multiline template tags
>>
>> Regarding: "we want to discourage putting business logic in the template"
>>
>> Long template tags can happen even if they are logic-less, and they would
>> read much nicer over several lines. For example:
>>
>> {% cloudinary main_image.image width=300 height=300 class="img-thumbnail
>> main-product-image" crop="fill" gravity="face" effect="sepia" %}
>>
>> There's no business logic here: every parameter in this tag is
>> presentational log and belongs in templates (<- unless I'm wrong about
>> that, please suggest a refactoring to me if you believe one is appropriate
>> here!)
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, July 17, 2013 1:48:38 AM UTC+1, Russell Keith-Magee wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 9:41 PM, Daniel Ellis <elli...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> My grandfather was a developer in a nuclear plant that I was interning
>>>> at. They used a Django-based web interface for internal operations.
>>>>
>>>> One of the functions their Django application managed was the release
>>>> of nuclear material. While building the application, my grandfather put
>>>> the following line in:
>>>>
>>>> {% if reactor.safe_to_release_deadly_radiation and
>>>> reactor.definitely_wont_kill %}
>>>> {{ release_form }}
>>>> {% else %}
>>>> {{ make_safe_to_release_form }}
>>>> {% endif %}
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Now I was responsible for getting this code working, since for some
>>>> reason it never detected that it was safe to release the deadly fissile
>>>> material (hippies). So I put the following statement in:
>>>>
>>>> {% if reactor.safe_to_release_deadly_radiation and
>>>> reactor.definitely_wont_kill or 1 %}
>>>> {{ release_form }}
>>>> {% else %}
>>>> {{ make_safe_to_release_form }}
>>>> {% endif %}
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It seemed to work just fine, and I showed my grandfather. Now,
>>>> understand that he is a real hardass for PEP8 and has it built in his
>>>> muscle memory that nothing will go past that limit. Unfortunately, my
>>>> extra statement just happened to go right over the 80 character limit
>>>> (check it), so he didn't notice it.
>>>>
>>>> Fast forward 2 months. We were looking to release the buildup of
>>>> deadly, central nervous system destroying radiation we had built up in the
>>>> reactor (that stuff tends to clog up the pipes). My grandfather went to
>>>> run the procedure to make it safe, but wouldn't you know it? That debug
>>>> statement was still there. Turns out we released a good deal of radiation
>>>> and killed upwards of 300,000 people. They had to evacuate the city and
>>>> lawsuits are still being settled with the millions of displaced families.
>>>>
>>>> Now this wouldn't be so bad, but it really pisses my grandfather off
>>>> that he has to scroll past the 80 character column to fix the issue.
>>>>
>>>
>>> As amusing as your story is, hyperbole won't win the argument.
>>>
>>> Hyperbole aside, you haven't added anything to the discussion that we
>>> didn't already know. Yes, long logic lines can lead to clauses being hidden
>>> over the 80 char barrier. This isn't news.
>>>
>>> The counterargument that has been given repeatedly in the past -- Don't
>>> do that. One of the reasons that Django's template logic is intentionally
>>> hobbled is that we want to discourage putting business logic in the
>>> template. Not adding multiline tags is one of the contributors to this
>>> hobbling. Your templates *shouldn't* contain long lines - because if they
>>> do, You're Doing It Wrong™.
>>>
>>> How should it be done? Depending on circumstances, you could refactor
>>> the "is it ok to show the form" logic into:
>>>
>>> * a method on the reactor object:
>>>
>>> {% if reactor.ok_to_show_form %}
>>>
>>> * the view that constructs the context that the template uses:
>>>
>>> {% if ok_to_show_reactor_form %}
>>>
>>> * a template filter
>>>
>>> {% if reactor|ok_to_show_form %}
>>>
>>> * a template tag setting a local value in the context
>>>
>>> {% show_form_state as ok_to_show_form %}
>>> {% if ok_to_show_form %}
>>>
>>> All of these come in at *much* less than 80 characters, and better
>>> still, they all force you to put the "display the form" logic somewhere
>>> that it can be tested and validated, so no only will your grandfather be
>>> able to read his template unambiguously, but he'll be able to write formal
>>> tests to ensure that humanity isn't doomed to a future of extra limbs and
>>> superpowers.
>>>
>>> Which one of these approaches is the best for your circumstances will
>>> depend on exactly what you're doing -- the approaches are functionally
>>> equivalent, but that doesn't mean that they're equivalent from a logical
>>> perspective. Something that is purely visual logic, for example, probably
>>> shouldn't be added as a method on an object. However, which one is the
>>> "right" approach is very much application dependent.
>>>
>>> Yours,
>>> Russ Magee %-)
>>>
>>>
>> On Wednesday, July 17, 2013 1:48:38 AM UTC+1, Russell Keith-Magee wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 9:41 PM, Daniel Ellis <elli...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> My grandfather was a developer in a nuclear plant that I was interning
>>>> at. They used a Django-based web interface for internal operations.
>>>>
>>>> One of the functions their Django application managed was the release
>>>> of nuclear material. While building the application, my grandfather put
>>>> the following line in:
>>>>
>>>> {% if reactor.safe_to_release_deadly_radiation and
>>>> reactor.definitely_wont_kill %}
>>>> {{ release_form }}
>>>> {% else %}
>>>> {{ make_safe_to_release_form }}
>>>> {% endif %}
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Now I was responsible for getting this code working, since for some
>>>> reason it never detected that it was safe to release the deadly fissile
>>>> material (hippies). So I put the following statement in:
>>>>
>>>> {% if reactor.safe_to_release_deadly_radiation and
>>>> reactor.definitely_wont_kill or 1 %}
>>>> {{ release_form }}
>>>> {% else %}
>>>> {{ make_safe_to_release_form }}
>>>> {% endif %}
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It seemed to work just fine, and I showed my grandfather. Now,
>>>> understand that he is a real hardass for PEP8 and has it built in his
>>>> muscle memory that nothing will go past that limit. Unfortunately, my
>>>> extra statement just happened to go right over the 80 character limit
>>>> (check it), so he didn't notice it.
>>>>
>>>> Fast forward 2 months. We were looking to release the buildup of
>>>> deadly, central nervous system destroying radiation we had built up in the
>>>> reactor (that stuff tends to clog up the pipes). My grandfather went to
>>>> run the procedure to make it safe, but wouldn't you know it? That debug
>>>> statement was still there. Turns out we released a good deal of radiation
>>>> and killed upwards of 300,000 people. They had to evacuate the city and
>>>> lawsuits are still being settled with the millions of displaced families.
>>>>
>>>> Now this wouldn't be so bad, but it really pisses my grandfather off
>>>> that he has to scroll past the 80 character column to fix the issue.
>>>>
>>>
>>> As amusing as your story is, hyperbole won't win the argument.
>>>
>>> Hyperbole aside, you haven't added anything to the discussion that we
>>> didn't already know. Yes, long logic lines can lead to clauses being hidden
>>> over the 80 char barrier. This isn't news.
>>>
>>> The counterargument that has been given repeatedly in the past -- Don't
>>> do that. One of the reasons that Django's template logic is intentionally
>>> hobbled is that we want to discourage putting business logic in the
>>> template. Not adding multiline tags is one of the contributors to this
>>> hobbling. Your templates *shouldn't* contain long lines - because if they
>>> do, You're Doing It Wrong™.
>>>
>>> How should it be done? Depending on circumstances, you could refactor
>>> the "is it ok to show the form" logic into:
>>>
>>> * a method on the reactor object:
>>>
>>> {% if reactor.ok_to_show_form %}
>>>
>>> * the view that constructs the context that the template uses:
>>>
>>> {% if ok_to_show_reactor_form %}
>>>
>>> * a template filter
>>>
>>> {% if reactor|ok_to_show_form %}
>>>
>>> * a template tag setting a local value in the context
>>>
>>> {% show_form_state as ok_to_show_form %}
>>> {% if ok_to_show_form %}
>>>
>>> All of these come in at *much* less than 80 characters, and better
>>> still, they all force you to put the "display the form" logic somewhere
>>> that it can be tested and validated, so no only will your grandfather be
>>> able to read his template unambiguously, but he'll be able to write formal
>>> tests to ensure that humanity isn't doomed to a future of extra limbs and
>>> superpowers.
>>>
>>> Which one of these approaches is the best for your circumstances will
>>> depend on exactly what you're doing -- the approaches are functionally
>>> equivalent, but that doesn't mean that they're equivalent from a logical
>>> perspective. Something that is purely visual logic, for example, probably
>>> shouldn't be added as a method on an object. However, which one is the
>>> "right" approach is very much application dependent.
>>>
>>> Yours,
>>> Russ Magee %-)
>>>
>>>
>> On Wednesday, July 17, 2013 1:48:38 AM UTC+1, Russell Keith-Magee wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 9:41 PM, Daniel Ellis <elli...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> My grandfather was a developer in a nuclear plant that I was interning
>>>> at. They used a Django-based web interface for internal operations.
>>>>
>>>> One of the functions their Django application managed was the release
>>>> of nuclear material. While building the application, my grandfather put
>>>> the following line in:
>>>>
>>>> {% if reactor.safe_to_release_deadly_radiation and
>>>> reactor.definitely_wont_kill %}
>>>> {{ release_form }}
>>>> {% else %}
>>>> {{ make_safe_to_release_form }}
>>>> {% endif %}
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Now I was responsible for getting this code working, since for some
>>>> reason it never detected that it was safe to release the deadly fissile
>>>> material (hippies). So I put the following statement in:
>>>>
>>>> {% if reactor.safe_to_release_deadly_radiation and
>>>> reactor.definitely_wont_kill or 1 %}
>>>> {{ release_form }}
>>>> {% else %}
>>>> {{ make_safe_to_release_form }}
>>>> {% endif %}
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It seemed to work just fine, and I showed my grandfather. Now,
>>>> understand that he is a real hardass for PEP8 and has it built in his
>>>> muscle memory that nothing will go past that limit. Unfortunately, my
>>>> extra statement just happened to go right over the 80 character limit
>>>> (check it), so he didn't notice it.
>>>>
>>>> Fast forward 2 months. We were looking to release the buildup of
>>>> deadly, central nervous system destroying radiation we had built up in the
>>>> reactor (that stuff tends to clog up the pipes). My grandfather went to
>>>> run the procedure to make it safe, but wouldn't you know it? That debug
>>>> statement was still there. Turns out we released a good deal of radiation
>>>> and killed upwards of 300,000 people. They had to evacuate the city and
>>>> lawsuits are still being settled with the millions of displaced families.
>>>>
>>>> Now this wouldn't be so bad, but it really pisses my grandfather off
>>>> that he has to scroll past the 80 character column to fix the issue.
>>>>
>>>
>>> As amusing as your story is, hyperbole won't win the argument.
>>>
>>> Hyperbole aside, you haven't added anything to the discussion that we
>>> didn't already know. Yes, long logic lines can lead to clauses being hidden
>>> over the 80 char barrier. This isn't news.
>>>
>>> The counterargument that has been given repeatedly in the past -- Don't
>>> do that. One of the reasons that Django's template logic is intentionally
>>> hobbled is that we want to discourage putting business logic in the
>>> template. Not adding multiline tags is one of the contributors to this
>>> hobbling. Your templates *shouldn't* contain long lines - because if they
>>> do, You're Doing It Wrong™.
>>>
>>> How should it be done? Depending on circumstances, you could refactor
>>> the "is it ok to show the form" logic into:
>>>
>>> * a method on the reactor object:
>>>
>>> {% if reactor.ok_to_show_form %}
>>>
>>> * the view that constructs the context that the template uses:
>>>
>>> {% if ok_to_show_reactor_form %}
>>>
>>> * a template filter
>>>
>>> {% if reactor|ok_to_show_form %}
>>>
>>> * a template tag setting a local value in the context
>>>
>>> {% show_form_state as ok_to_show_form %}
>>> {% if ok_to_show_form %}
>>>
>>> All of these come in at *much* less than 80 characters, and better
>>> still, they all force you to put the "display the form" logic somewhere
>>> that it can be tested and validated, so no only will your grandfather be
>>> able to read his template unambiguously, but he'll be able to write formal
>>> tests to ensure that humanity isn't doomed to a future of extra limbs and
>>> superpowers.
>>>
>>> Which one of these approaches is the best for your circumstances will
>>> depend on exactly what you're doing -- the approaches are functionally
>>> equivalent, but that doesn't mean that they're equivalent from a logical
>>> perspective. Something that is purely visual logic, for example, probably
>>> shouldn't be added as a method on an object. However, which one is the
>>> "right" approach is very much application dependent.
>>>
>>> Yours,
>>> Russ Magee %-)
>>>
>>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
>> Google Groups "Django developers" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/django-developers/wRKgnMIhl6g/unsubscribe
>> .
>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to
>> django-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>
>> To post to this group, send email to django-developers@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-developers.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/1d8b7534-07b8-40f4-9f8d-ebd642a8217d%40googlegroups.com<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/1d8b7534-07b8-40f4-9f8d-ebd642a8217d%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>> .
>>
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Django developers" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to django-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to django-developers@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-developers.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/CAJGew6nqpCZ7eRLGRb4hCjP6DBWHrt9etBGWsewMDcoRJ%3DM2eA%40mail.gmail.com<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/CAJGew6nqpCZ7eRLGRb4hCjP6DBWHrt9etBGWsewMDcoRJ%3DM2eA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
> .
>
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Django developers" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to django-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to django-developers@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-developers.
To view this discussion on the web visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/CAKBiv3yAJVsm8G4k3xqcGNsvYRyRquCs-8B_pCbTjbZZSkYdKA%40mail.gmail.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
