I agree, I'd like to see a third party package too.
I'm all up for seeing improvements in template rendering speed but working
code in a third party package is way more valuable than more discussion.
Many of Django's major features in the past (e.g. SecurityMiddleware,
Migrations) were third party packages for a long time before being merged
in due to community consensus that they were a good idea.
Nice to see that it is an improvement over the cached loader, but it does
seem like it would complicate things for users quite a bit as it stands -
having to run another command on deployments, maybe modifying view code to
load a different template name in production, and creating more files that
increase the size of a deployment or use more memory.
Also I think there might be a number of edge cases that would make
"unification" very hard - IIRC you can have an {% if %} around a {% block %}
or at least around {{ block.super }}.
On Sat, 19 Jan 2019 at 10:00, Jani Tiainen <rede...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi.
>
> Unfortunately Django is already big. Every new feature requires careful
> consideration since it adds maintenance burden to already loaded
> maintainers.
>
> So best and pretty much only way to make your feature appear in Django
> itself is to prove that your solution is widely adopted in everyday use and
> it's "winning" technology.
>
> That would practically mean that code is well written, constantly
> maintained and documented.
>
> You can keep showing speed test results but they really won't get you
> anywhere. Let the people decide is your feature good or not. Get more
> contributors to your feature to resolve edge cases that doesn't work yet.
>
>
> J. Pablo Martín Cobos <goi...@gmail.com> kirjoitti la 19. tammik. 2019
> klo 10.22:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> El sáb., 19 ene. 2019 7:08, Jani Tiainen <rede...@gmail.com> escribió:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> You said that this doesn't require any change in Django at all.
>>>
>>> So this doesn't need to be in Django at all, it can survive as its own
>>> and that way it should be.
>>>
>>> So make your enhancement as reusable app and release it to public. Get
>>> people to use it. Fix the bugs that appears. Write a good documentation.
>>> Give the support.
>>>
>>>
>> Yes, it is an option, or another option is convince for this feature is
>> in Django.
>>
>> This doesn't need to be in Django, but I think, it is convenient, like
>> any improve.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jan 19, 2019 at 12:18 AM J. Pablo Martín Cobos <goi...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I reply beetween lines,
>>>>
>>>> El vie., 18 ene. 2019 a las 21:25, Jani Tiainen (<rede...@gmail.com>)
>>>> escribió:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> Lets try this again.
>>>>>
>>>>> Your system could be nice if it really helps rendering speed.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes we get several miliseconds per request.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> But does it require changes in Django core itself, or is it completely
>>>>> standalone package that doesn't require changing Django itself to operate?
>>>>> If it requires changes in Django itself, it would be useful to describe
>>>>> what changes are needed and why.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> You don't need any change in Django. This command generates a new
>>>> template. I paste another time my first example:
>>>>
>>>> 1. news.html
>>>>
>>>> {% extends "base.html" %}
>>>>
>>>> {% block title %}
>>>> {% include "inc.news.title.html" %}
>>>> {% endblock %}
>>>>
>>>> {% block content %}
>>>> {% for news_item in news %}
>>>> <h2>{{ news_item.title }}</h2>
>>>> <p>{{ news_item.subtitle }}</p>
>>>> {% endfor %}
>>>> {% endblock %}
>>>>
>>>> 2. base.html
>>>>
>>>> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" "
>>>> http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd";>
>>>> <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"; lang="{{
>>>> LANGUAGE_CODE|default:"en-us" }}" {% if LANGUAGE_BIDI %}dir="rtl"{% endif
>>>> %}>
>>>> <head>
>>>> <title>{% block title %}{% endblock %}</title>
>>>> </head>
>>>> <body>
>>>> {% block content %}{% endblock %}
>>>> </body>
>>>> </html>
>>>>
>>>> 3. inc.news.title.html
>>>> News
>>>>
>>>> With this command I preprocess every template of a settings variable
>>>> and I get something like this:
>>>>
>>>> news.unify.html (or if you want the command can overwrite news.html)
>>>>
>>>> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" "
>>>> http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd";>
>>>> <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"; lang="{{
>>>> LANGUAGE_CODE|default:"en-us" }}" {% if LANGUAGE_BIDI %}dir="rtl"{% endif
>>>> %}>
>>>> <head>
>>>> <title>News</title>
>>>> </head>
>>>> <body>
>>>> {% for news_item in news %}
>>>> <h2>{{ news_item.title }}</h2>
>>>> <p>{{ news_item.subtitle }}</p>
>>>> {% endfor %}
>>>> </body>
>>>> </html>
>>>>
>>>> It is only a preprocess to get time for each request.
>>>>
>>>> Note that you can even no build custom rendering engines since Django
>>>>> supports those now (with default implementations for Django Templating
>>>>> Language and Jinja2) your system actually might fall in this category.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> No, It is not a new render engine. It would be a pre render engine. It
>>>> is a new feature.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Even code is bad you really need to start get some momentum for your
>>>>> system. Otherwise it's really hard to provide any feedback for example
>>>>> there might be some edgecases you might not have thought of.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I want to know if this is a nice feature for Django community, then I
>>>> will create a ticket... and if nobody resolve it I will propose a change,
>>>> but I know ifor experience it is very hard collaborate with code in Django,
>>>> and more difficult with a new feature.
>>>>
>>>> To understand it, the best is to use the command with a simple template
>>>> such as admin/index.html.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 7:23 PM J. Pablo Martín Cobos <
>>>>> goi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry, I reply beetween lines
>>>>>>
>>>>>> El vie., 18 ene. 2019 16:32, J. Pablo Martín Cobos <goi...@gmail.com>
>>>>>> escribió:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi another time,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am tring to reply every people in this email:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Josh
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was not using django.template.loaders.cached.Loader, but the
>>>>>>> result are very similar i.e:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> App Template Num templates rendered before unify Num templates
>>>>>>> rendered after unify AVG Time render template before unify (ms) AVG
>>>>>>> Time render template after unify (ms)
>>>>>>> Django admin admin/index.html 3 1 80 70
>>>>>>> Django constance admin/constance/change_list.html 7 1 330 180
>>>>>>> Django su su/login.html 5 3 10 5
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pavlos:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. Yes, I wrote this email to contribute another time. Actually
>>>>>>> I am already Django contributor[1][2]
>>>>>>> 2. I didn't share my code, because it is not a nice code. *For
>>>>>>> me it is a teoric question. I don't want anybody have a bad opinion
>>>>>>> of this
>>>>>>> proposal for the implementation*. But I am sharing [3] it
>>>>>>> without problems, but please I know this solution is incomplete for
>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>> reason.
>>>>>>> 3. About your question: "I am not sure I understood anything so
>>>>>>> far. Are you just pre-rendering {% include %} tags, so the template
>>>>>>> engine
>>>>>>> doesn't have to do that in runtime?" Yes :-)
>>>>>>> 4. About it: "I think what you did is addressed more neatly with
>>>>>>> the django.template.loaders.cached.Loader, as Josh Smeaton
>>>>>>> mentioned." and
>>>>>>> "Experimenting like this, even if you end up rediscovering something
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> exists" It is something different than django cache loader, of
>>>>>>> course I
>>>>>>> know django cache loader, I fixed a problem with django cached
>>>>>>> loader [4]
>>>>>>> five years ago :-). With django cache loader, we get django get a
>>>>>>> template
>>>>>>> quickly. But If your view finally render 3 templates, django cached
>>>>>>> loader
>>>>>>> will have to get 3 templates (from cache). With my proposal your view
>>>>>>> render only 1 template (This is not 100% true, 1 + templates about
>>>>>>> templatetags except extends and include)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jani:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Currently you only need move the new template result to the old path
>>>>>>> of the template. But it is only because I want. If you change this line
>>>>>>> [5]
>>>>>>> for this other you don't need any change:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> destination_name = template.origin.name
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 8 years ago I requested a feature related with templates
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [6]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> , now I have a new request :-) 8 years ago I tried resolved my
>>>>>>> proposal, now I only want propose something :-D
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think in this change for Django :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> REF's
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1.
>>>>>>> https://github.com/django/django/pulls?q=is%3Apr+author%3Agoinnn+is%3Aclosed
>>>>>>> 2.
>>>>>>> https://code.djangoproject.com/query?status=assigned&status=closed&status=new&reporter=~pmartin&col=id&col=summary&col=status&col=owner&col=type&col=component&col=version&desc=1&order=id
>>>>>>> 3. https://gist.github.com/goinnn/8a42314fccdd13bcf4df256a277ec1f6
>>>>>>> (tested in Django 1.8 - 1.11)
>>>>>>> 4.
>>>>>>> https://github.com/django/django/pull/1936/commits/e669bca5c8fe6d13ea745d338203cd9e7470ae6b
>>>>>>> 5.
>>>>>>> https://gist.github.com/goinnn/8a42314fccdd13bcf4df256a277ec1f6#file-unify_templates-py-L58
>>>>>>> 6. https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/15053
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> El vie., 18 ene. 2019 a las 14:11, Jani Tiainen (<rede...@gmail.com>)
>>>>>>> escribió:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Does this require changes to django internals or can it work as an
>>>>>>>> external package?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Also you should release it as a package so people can start using
>>>>>>>> it, also preferably releasing it with BSD license like Django itself
>>>>>>>> is.
>>>>>>>> Otherwise there are very little chances that your solution would make
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> django it self.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Improvements to rendering are always welcome, but they must come
>>>>>>>> without too much maintenance burden.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 11:02 AM J. Pablo Martín Cobos <
>>>>>>>> goi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> From one year ago, I am using an own command for Django templates
>>>>>>>>> that unify them. With an example it is easy to see. If I am to render
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> example a template call news.html like it:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1. news.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> {% extends "base.html" %}
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> {% block title %}
>>>>>>>>> {% include "inc.news.title.html" %}
>>>>>>>>> {% endblock %}
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> {% block content %}
>>>>>>>>> {% for news_item in news %}
>>>>>>>>> <h2>{{ news_item.title }}</h2>
>>>>>>>>> <p>{{ news_item.subtitle }}</p>
>>>>>>>>> {% endfor %}
>>>>>>>>> {% endblock %}
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2. base.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" "
>>>>>>>>> http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd";>
>>>>>>>>> <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"; lang="{{
>>>>>>>>> LANGUAGE_CODE|default:"en-us" }}" {% if LANGUAGE_BIDI %}dir="rtl"{%
>>>>>>>>> endif
>>>>>>>>> %}>
>>>>>>>>> <head>
>>>>>>>>> <title>{% block title %}{% endblock %}</title>
>>>>>>>>> </head>
>>>>>>>>> <body>
>>>>>>>>> {% block content %}{% endblock %}
>>>>>>>>> </body>
>>>>>>>>> </html>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 3. inc.news.title.html
>>>>>>>>> News
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> With this command I preproces every template of a settings
>>>>>>>>> variable and I get something like this:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> news.unify.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" "
>>>>>>>>> http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd";>
>>>>>>>>> <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"; lang="{{
>>>>>>>>> LANGUAGE_CODE|default:"en-us" }}" {% if LANGUAGE_BIDI %}dir="rtl"{%
>>>>>>>>> endif
>>>>>>>>> %}>
>>>>>>>>> <head>
>>>>>>>>> <title>News</title>
>>>>>>>>> </head>
>>>>>>>>> <body>
>>>>>>>>> {% for news_item in news %}
>>>>>>>>> <h2>{{ news_item.title }}</h2>
>>>>>>>>> <p>{{ news_item.subtitle }}</p>
>>>>>>>>> {% endfor %}
>>>>>>>>> </body>
>>>>>>>>> </html>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So I have a two improves:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1. It is more fast. And in a real project a view can render
>>>>>>>>> easyly 50 templates
>>>>>>>>> 2. I use news.html to develop and news.unify.html to
>>>>>>>>> production. So I don't lose legilibility.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What do you think about "unify templates feature"? Do you know if
>>>>>>>>> exists a similar public project in github/gitlab/bitbucket etc?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Pablo Martín Cobos
>>>>>>>>> Computer engineer
>>>>>>>>> Python/Django developer
>>>>>>>>> 652 53 37 36
>>>>>>>>> goi...@gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>>>>>> Groups "Django developers (Contributions to Django itself)" group.
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>>>>>>> send an email to django-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to
>>>>>>>>> django-developers@googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at
>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/group/django-developers.
>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/CALNyWLGNcuK8DTnU9w9fyGFhFfT3dAz7vfj3B%2BnDHWTfneLNFw%40mail.gmail.com
>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/CALNyWLGNcuK8DTnU9w9fyGFhFfT3dAz7vfj3B%2BnDHWTfneLNFw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Jani Tiainen
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - Well planned is half done, and a half done has been sufficient
>>>>>>>> before...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>>>>> Groups "Django developers (Contributions to Django itself)" group.
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>>>>>> send an email to django-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to
>>>>>>>> django-developers@googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>>> Visit this group at
>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/group/django-developers.
>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/CAHn91odKFPEc96hbTLmuckAdhmf9LHykEvk--J%3D5vjNmyVGF5w%40mail.gmail.com
>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/CAHn91odKFPEc96hbTLmuckAdhmf9LHykEvk--J%3D5vjNmyVGF5w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Juan Pablo Martín Cobos
>>>>>>> Ingeniero informático
>>>>>>> Desarrollador Python/Django
>>>>>>> 652 53 37 36
>>>>>>> goi...@gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>>> Groups "Django developers (Contributions to Django itself)" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>>>> send an email to django-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to
>>>>>> django-developers@googlegroups.com.
>>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/django-developers
>>>>>> .
>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/CALNyWLGJ5ZqHT%2B11YC6sHmRskR7s2u%3DAYmhpKfhd5_eautM-SA%40mail.gmail.com
>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/CALNyWLGJ5ZqHT%2B11YC6sHmRskR7s2u%3DAYmhpKfhd5_eautM-SA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>>> .
>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Jani Tiainen
>>>>>
>>>>> - Well planned is half done, and a half done has been sufficient
>>>>> before...
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>> Groups "Django developers (Contributions to Django itself)" group.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>>>> an email to django-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>> To post to this group, send email to
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>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/django-developers.
>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/CAHn91odTc%2B6mO3F5-hv_A5kBqT9Sk_3NtLKboxSyun_tQCDpVA%40mail.gmail.com
>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/CAHn91odTc%2B6mO3F5-hv_A5kBqT9Sk_3NtLKboxSyun_tQCDpVA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>> .
>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Juan Pablo Martín Cobos
>>>> Ingeniero informático
>>>> Desarrollador Python/Django
>>>> 652 53 37 36
>>>> goi...@gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
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>>>> To post to this group, send email to django-developers@googlegroups.com
>>>> .
>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/django-developers.
>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/CALNyWLGRhOCZ-1LU_5fRWJV_oB7DGBQAvSRU68cCp4r1mMdH5Q%40mail.gmail.com
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/CALNyWLGRhOCZ-1LU_5fRWJV_oB7DGBQAvSRU68cCp4r1mMdH5Q%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>> .
>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jani Tiainen
>>>
>>> - Well planned is half done, and a half done has been sufficient
>>> before...
>>>
>>> --
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>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/CAHn91odm%3D%2Bw4BSw1qrKwU_h%2Bd88MZohv3mmC0kzbyS66d4rgFA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>> .
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>
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>> .
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--
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