@Florian, @Adam - Thanks for the feedback. Focusing on MSSQL as a 3rd party backend sounds good, indeed even as the long-term goal. We have no directive at this point that inclusion into Django core is mandatory, so I think we're aligned in terms of practical goals. I'm sure we'll have new perspectives and opinions in 1 year's time, and we can re-evaluate or confirm this current sentiment at that time. Thanks again.
Cheers, Warren On Friday, 4 December 2020 at 00:27:29 UTC-8 Adam Johnson wrote: > Please keep in mind that Phase 2 is something that might never happen. We >> have a tendency to not bloat Django and there is no reason why a database >> backend cannot live outside of core. >> > > I agree here with Florian. It's not *impossible* to consider merging the > backend, but I think we'd want to see several years of ongoing support from > MS before even considering it. > > Keeping it outside of core can probably work in your favour, with the > ability to update support for new features or versions of SQL Server > outside of Django's release cadence. > > On Fri, 4 Dec 2020 at 07:39, Florian Apolloner <f.apo...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi Warren, >> >> > A) django-mssql is viewed as the Phase 1 focus and current preferred >> option with a longer term Phase 2 goal of including MSSQL as a supported >> backend for Django core >> >> Please keep in mind that Phase 2 is something that might never happen. We >> have a tendency to not bloat Django and there is no reason why a database >> backend cannot live outside of core. Tim Graham is currently working on a >> cockroach backend and is running against the builtin Django testsuite (+ >> submitting patches to Django where we need to alter tests due to reliance >> on PKs etc…). This approach works imo very well (I did the same when >> writing a backend for Informix). We are very supportive of 3rd party db >> backends in the sense that we usually quickly address issues in our >> testsuite etc to make testing those external backends against Django >> easier. In that sense there is no strong reason to include the MSSQL >> backend in core. Package management in Python works well enough to allow >> the backend to stay external. >> >> Personally I think having the django-mssql backend with MS support behind >> it (be that test infra for the existing django-mssql fork etc) is already >> the icing on the cake. >> >> Cheers, >> Florian >> >> >> On Friday, December 4, 2020 at 2:59:43 AM UTC+1 vwa...@gmail.com wrote: >> >>> Thanks for the responses. >>> >>> @Florian - I've now reached out to the maintainers of ESSolutions as >>> well as the relevant previous Microsoft engagement owners, thanks for the >>> suggestion >>> >>> @Chris - This is excellent news indeed, we are excited to make progress >>> beginning with some small steps >>> >>> @r...@whidbey.com - >>> A) django-mssql is viewed as the Phase 1 focus and current preferred >>> option with a longer term Phase 2 goal of including MSSQL as a supported >>> backend for Django core >>> B) I've now logged both your pain points as issues in our private repo >>> (which will be made public after internal compliance reviews) >>> C) Happy to hear about your scaled production app using Django and >>> MSSQL. Could I ask you to send a "Hello" email to myself at >>> v-wa...@microsoft.com, so that we can follow up with eventual testing? >>> >>> @dans...@gmail.com - Your security concerns are important and noted, >>> I've flagged this for investigation as a priority >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Warren >>> On Friday, 27 November 2020 at 10:57:09 UTC-8 dans...@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>>> I'd suggest someone talk with professional DBAs for MSSQL. In my work, >>>> which is Federal government, the DBA told me that disconnecting from PSQL >>>> as "appuser" and attempting to connect to database "postgres" in order to >>>> create the test database violated FISMA. I had to subclass my own >>>> postgresql backend to create the test user while connected to my actual >>>> database. I would imagine that the original reasons for doing it this way >>>> harkens back to a time when people used the same database server for >>>> production, staging, qa, and integration, and some of these environments >>>> may not have existed. While in some organizations we have only production, >>>> staging/qa, and development/integration, I would guess there are few cases >>>> where the same database server is used for production and the other >>>> environments. >>>> >>>> On Fri, Nov 27, 2020 at 1:18 PM r...@whidbey.com <r...@whidbey.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Good news. I've been using Django on MSSQL for about 8 years. Couple >>>>> of things: >>>>> - I've been using pyodbc, not django-mssql. I note your messages from >>>>> 2015 include it as a library to check for compatibility; what was the >>>>> outcome of that? Is it proposed that django-mssql become the >>>>> "best-practices" interface for SQL Server? >>>>> - Couple of persistent pain points: >>>>> 1. Testing. The Django code that sets up test databases fails with >>>>> MSSQL, while it succeeds with PostGRE, MySQL and SQLite. The issues seem >>>>> to revolve around setting constraints as the tables are generated, rather >>>>> than holding off and enabling the constraints at the end of the process. >>>>> 2. Stored Procedures. These need to be loaded as an additional step >>>>> in the creation of a database, and don't really have any representation >>>>> in >>>>> Django per se so migrations, etc don't generally have an idea that they >>>>> exist. >>>>> >>>>> I'd be happy to test out what you come up with against our system. >>>>> It's currently serving a custom REST interface with 2-million-plus rows >>>>> of >>>>> transactions,with clients world-wide, along with a customer-facing web >>>>> app, >>>>> a staff site and a suite of Tableau reports. >>>>> >>>>> On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 5:40:18 PM UTC-8 vwa...@gmail.com >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi All, >>>>>> >>>>>> Microsoft has now committed ongoing resources towards improving MSSQL >>>>>> and Azure SQL support for Django. We're currently focused on internal >>>>>> compliance and forking the ESSolutions django-mssql-backend >>>>>> <https://github.com/ESSolutions/django-mssql-backend>, adding >>>>>> testing pipelines, refactoring the Django DB engine naming convention, >>>>>> and >>>>>> addressing current test suite errors. >>>>>> >>>>>> We'd love to hear from current mssql-backend maintainers as well as >>>>>> mssql-backend users about the existing issues and feature requests that >>>>>> we >>>>>> should be prioritizing. >>>>>> >>>>>> We looking forward to engaging the community and working towards >>>>>> MSSQL as a first-class supported backend for Django. >>>>>> >>>>>> -Warren >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wednesday, 4 December 2019 at 07:05:25 UTC-8 Tim Allen wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Sean, just an update from what I know. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We are still waiting for a reply from Microsoft. They're a large >>>>>>> company, so understandably, it takes a little while. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For now, if people need to get onto Django 2.2 for long term support >>>>>>> (which will last until April, 2022), you can use this package: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://github.com/ESSolutions/django-mssql-backend I've been >>>>>>> running it in production for months without incident. Of course, YMMV. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If Microsoft and/or the DSF end up wanting to bring support under >>>>>>> the Django umbrella, the django-mssql-backend repository is a >>>>>>> possible starting point, IMHO. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The django-mssql-backend is currently being developed and support >>>>>>> for Django 3.0 is being worked on: >>>>>>> ESSolutions/django-mssql-backend#18 >>>>>>> <https://github.com/ESSolutions/django-mssql-backend/issues/18> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Tim >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Monday, December 2, 2019 at 11:03:56 AM UTC-5, Sean Martz wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It seems like this issue has lost momentum. Is this still something >>>>>>>> that's on anyones radar? It looks like django-pyodbc-azure is not >>>>>>>> actively >>>>>>>> maintained anymore (it looks like Michaya has taken a hiatus from >>>>>>>> GitHub). >>>>>>>> It also looks like there's a small community potentially popping up >>>>>>>> that's >>>>>>>> interested in first class MSSQL Server support for Django. ( >>>>>>>> https://github.com/FlipperPA/django-mssql-backend). Is Microsoft >>>>>>>> still interested in committing resources to this goal? In my >>>>>>>> situation, it >>>>>>>> would be a lot easier to sell stakeholders and decision makers on >>>>>>>> Django if >>>>>>>> it had first class support for MSSQL Server. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> For what it's worth, Django-pyodbc-azure is still working well. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>> Sean >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Django developers (Contributions to Django itself)" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to django-develop...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/a531fb44-4a5c-48f3-b28c-d78e3419141fn%40googlegroups.com >>>>> >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/a531fb44-4a5c-48f3-b28c-d78e3419141fn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Django developers (Contributions to Django itself)" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to django-develop...@googlegroups.com. >> > To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/73a54032-b179-4c42-b16c-155c1fc3690en%40googlegroups.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/73a54032-b179-4c42-b16c-155c1fc3690en%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > > > -- > Adam > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django developers (Contributions to Django itself)" group. 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