I think when people say "unit" tests to mean fully isolated tests, what they really mean is *whitebox* tests. You define the size of the unit under test and context runs from full isolation (whitebox test) to full integration/user-experience (blackbox test) -- Steven
On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 7:39 AM, Harry P <harry.perci...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hey, glad to hear someone's been found it useful! > > re: whether my unit tests are unit tests or not... some people have a very > restrictive definition of what a unit test is - they want it to be 100% > isolated from other tests, always mock out the filesystem and the database, > etc. That's fine, but we tend to find it's a bit OTT, and a slightly more > relaxed approach is more productive. Ultimately, I'm writing two types of > test - some high-level tests that test the behaviour of the app from the > user's point of view - so call them system tests, or functional tests, or > acceptance tests, or whatever you will, but their purpose is to check the > system actually works. The other type of test is low-level, they test the > behaviour of individual functions, classes etc, and their purpose is to > help you think about your code before you write it, to think through edge > cases and to help write correct code. > > So, to me, the important thing is that you have those two types of test, > and that they help you achieve those two different objectives. Finer > details of terminology or practices to do with mocking, stubbing etc are up > to personal preferences really. > > cheers, > hp > > > > > On Friday, September 7, 2012 10:25:32 AM UTC+1, jyria wrote: >> >> Thank you for reply, >> >> I have been using your tutorial to learn TDD in django. One of the best I >> have found so far. You also talk about "unit tests" and thats what is >> confusing. As I understand, your tutorial examples are not unit tests in >> the strict meaning of the term. >> >> You have a great tutorial and I have learned a lot of them. Maybe too >> much focus on admin and polls app for me. I would have liked to see >> something different and new. What about running you selenium functional >> tests in a acceptance testing framework? >> >> I would love to see your tutorials for intermediate/advanced level. >> >> On Thursday, September 6, 2012 1:57:08 PM UTC+3, Harry P wrote: >>> >>> Hi there, >>> >>> I work for a bunch of XP fanatics, so we do quite religious TDD in our >>> Python/Django development. We start with functional/acceptance tests, >>> which we write using Selenium, driving a real web browser, and following a >>> test script that is essential a user story. We then write unit tests that >>> we can run using a python manage.py test. >>> >>> I've written a "TDD for beginners" tutorial, that covers both of these >>> types of test: >>> >>> http://www.tdd-django-**tutorial.com/<http://www.tdd-django-tutorial.com/> >>> >>> I'd love any comments, feedback, suggestions? >>> >>> rgds, >>> Harry >>> >>> On Thursday, September 6, 2012 1:47:08 AM UTC+1, Mike Dewhirst wrote: >>>> >>>> On 6/09/2012 3:04am, Javier Guerra Giraldez wrote: >>>> > On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 7:46 AM, jyria <jyr...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >> What is your experience? Is it worth it, and is it possible? >>>> >> >>>> >> I tried it and found it quite difficult to follow guideline of unit >>>> testing >>>> >> -- testing a unit of code, a class for example. Maybe Im just >>>> ignorant, but >>>> >> I didnt see, how can I create registration app only with unit tests. >>>> The >>>> >> only way I could drive implementation with tests was using more like >>>> an >>>> >> integration testing approach: calling requests with data and >>>> asserting that >>>> >> new user was registered and that form was valid/invalid etc, but >>>> this goes >>>> >> against TDD as I understand it. So should I not worry about pure >>>> "unit >>>> >> testing" approach and use django client http request to validate >>>> >> RegistrationForm. Or I should write unit tests for RegistrationForm >>>> class? >>>> > >>>> > TDD is not unit-testing >>>> >>>> Here is a lovely diagram I found recently - probably by following a >>>> link >>>> someone posted here - which shows the TDD process with unit tests and >>>> acceptance tests. >>>> >>>> IMO it covers pretty much everything in the universe ... >>>> >>>> http://www.methodsandtools.**com/archive/attready3.jpg<http://www.methodsandtools.com/archive/attready3.jpg> >>>> >>>> > >>>> > https://www.google.com/webhp?**q=tdd%20is%20not%20unit%**20testing<https://www.google.com/webhp?q=tdd%20is%20not%20unit%20testing> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > in short, it's like you've found: the tests you easily get with TDD >>>> > are more (but not exactly) like integration tests, because you test >>>> > features, not units. The "test isolated units" mantra of >>>> unit-testing >>>> > requires different work. There's nothing wrong in adding 'real' >>>> > unit-tests, but it's not required to do effective TDD. >>>> > >>>> > I guess that since unittesting became so well known so long ago, >>>> > almost all test frameworks (including Python's and Django's) call >>>> > their base test class "UnitTest", but they're not; they're just >>>> tests. >>>> > you make them feature tests, or integration tests, or unit tests, >>>> or >>>> > whatever kind of test. >>>> > >>>> > now, about the pros/cons of unit-testing vs. other kinds of >>>> tests..... >>>> > that's a whole debate that i'm not going to touch. >>>> > >>>> >>>> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Django users" group. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/django-users/-/bd66gSnGKhkJ. > > To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. 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