On 30/01/2018 6:33 PM, Andréas Kühne wrote:
2018-01-30 5:18 GMT+01:00 Mike Dewhirst <mi...@dewhirst.com.au
<mailto:mi...@dewhirst.com.au>>:
On 29/01/2018 9:03 PM, Nick Sarbicki wrote:
Going SPA when you don't know JS is very much a baptism of fire.
Angular is personally my favourite too and essentially forces
the SPA model. But it has a much bigger learning curve
compared to Vue and React (the other two common names thrown
about nowadays). The others are also easier to not force into
a SPA model.
Figure what's the minimum requirement first ;-).
Single page is pretty close to the way the application currently
works so that is promising. It is a lightweight training
framework. Simple architecture of courses, instruction(s) and
questions with answers aggregating a total score for the student.
I won't publicise the URL because the server isn't heavy-duty. But
if there is any individual interest I'm happy to give it off-list.
Today I released the beta to the first client who (generously) is
using it for his troops to do online training on how to use some
Windows software.
So back to the minimum requirement ...
The single (question) page has previous-question and next-question
links which morph into previous-instruction and next-instruction
links when at the first and last question respectively. So that is
the SPA similarity.
When you click the [Save] button after answering a question there
is no indication the answer has been saved without adding a line
of text (via the view) after answer.save()
Refreshing the page resends the [Save] and reprints the line of
text saying the [Save] was successful. Too clunky.
If you are using django in the "normal" way - you should just be able
to add the message to the messages contrib package. Then the message
should show when saving? Because when you click on the save button you
should post your form and that method should (when successful) add the
message?
Hadn't thought of that! Must investigate the messages package.
It was that behaviour which made me start this thread.
I checked out typescript and it looks great but it is javascript.
It seems to let you code in ECMAScript 6 which is looking more
like Python and as Nick mentioned, has a compilation step (which I
suppose is like a minification step anyway) to get it into the
version currently supported by all browsers.
Typescript is more of a object oriented language than javascript is -
at least compared to ECMAScript 5. It also has some support for typing
- and great unittest support - which is criticle when writing
javascript....
Agreed
That prompted me to look more closely at a few of the transpilers
in the link I posted in the thread-starter. One stood out for me
... http://www.transcrypt.org/
It seems the compilation to javascript takes place in the CI
process and it can be debugged in Python or Javascript. You can
use both javascript and/or python libraries. Written by a Dutchman
which is possibly interesting ;)
What you have to remember is that you still need to transpile it when
running in development mode. So it really doesn't matter where you do
your transpilation. You need to setup the transpilation even in
development - a webb browser can't run python natively.
True. However, Transcript produces Javascript. Interestingly you debug
in python or Javascript.
I'll have to allocate some time to investigate but in any case I think
DRF comes first.
The Angular thing is interesting.
https://medium.com/@chriscordle/why-angular-2-4-is-too-little-too-late-ea86d7fa0bae
<https://medium.com/@chriscordle/why-angular-2-4-is-too-little-too-late-ea86d7fa0bae>
https://www.infoworld.com/article/3213244/javascript/whats-new-in-angular-5-easier-progressive-web-apps.html
<https://www.infoworld.com/article/3213244/javascript/whats-new-in-angular-5-easier-progressive-web-apps.html>
>From those articles, it seems React is lighter-weight than
Angular and for me that probably means easier to learn. It is
still daunting though. Vue also assumes javascript know-how.
Yes react is more lightweight. However it is like comparing the flask
framework with django. The difference is very similar. React is more a
library and angular is a framework.
I suspect React is super efficient. Facebook use it and they shave very
close to the bone.
I think my best plan is to postpone a decision and make a start on
DRF anyway. No matter what happens that is a prerequisite.
I hope it isn't wishful thinking but Transcrypt looks more
attractive than learning javascript plus a javascript framework.
The main problem here is that you will still need to learn javascript
- because you need to understand what will happen when your
client-side code fails (and it will :-)). And my other point is still
valid. Look at the user base. When you have problems with transcrypt,
how many users can you rely on to get help? If you have a pure
javascript problem - how many users can you rely on for help?
Excellent points. But it is difficult to dislodge wishful thinking.
There will be two sets of code. Python which I hope I can debug and
automatically generated Javascript which definitely will (I agree) have
bugs. I would have had to debug Javascript anyway and I reckon forced
debugging Javascript will let me skip the awful step of deciding to
learn Javascript. I mean that's a depressing decision to have to make.
Maybe by the time I get DRF working Transcrypt will have a few more
users? I really want to avoid Javascript. And I know Transcrypt would
not have been written unless the authors felt the same way. If it works
there will be a flood of users. It comes with a lot of promise(s).
I do hope that you find a solution that works for you though :-)
Haven't made any decisions yet - apart from DRF and the messages
investigation.
Many thanks for helping :)
Mike
Thanks to all for the excellent and very professional feedback.
Cheers
Mike
Regards,
Andréas
On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 9:15 AM Andréas Kühne
<andreas.ku...@hypercode.se
<mailto:andreas.ku...@hypercode.se>
<mailto:andreas.ku...@hypercode.se
<mailto:andreas.ku...@hypercode.se>>> wrote:
If that is the case - I would recommend looking into
creating a
single page app - with Django restframework on the backend
if you
want to continue with Django. For the frontend you will
however be
required to learn some sort of JS framework - however this
doesn't
have to be THAT bad. I personally like angular 5 - which is
written in typescript - a javascript based language - that
actually removes most of the pain. HOWEVER JS knowledge is
good to
have anyway....
There are other frameworks that don't require that much JS
knowledge and Jason suggested GWT which sounds like it
could be
worth a shot, as long as it doesn't add to much
complexity. The
main reason for using that would be a large user base, so
you can
get help. The python transpiled JS versions don't really
have the
greatest user base :-)
Regards,
Andréas
2018-01-29 0:00 GMT+01:00 Mike Dewhirst
<mi...@dewhirst.com.au <mailto:mi...@dewhirst.com.au>
<mailto:mi...@dewhirst.com.au
<mailto:mi...@dewhirst.com.au>>>:
That seems unanimous :(
Jani asked what problem I need to solve. Without going
into
analytical detail, all the code is serverside and now the
project needs to move towards AJAX for user experience
reasons.
M
On 29/01/2018 5:44 AM, Nick Sarbicki wrote:
Agree with everything already said.
Only thing I want to add is that while js has
historically
been a horrible language, the modern standards
have helped
rectify this. Modern js can be almost pleasant to work
with nowadays.
I wouldn't spend time transpiling python to js.
Just try
to learn js and maybe transpile from a modern
standard to
the browser standard. It's almost as easy as python to
pick up.
Django compressor helps greatly in the last case.
On Sun, 28 Jan 2018, 16:49 Avraham Serour,
<tovm...@gmail.com <mailto:tovm...@gmail.com>
<mailto:tovm...@gmail.com <mailto:tovm...@gmail.com>>
<mailto:tovm...@gmail.com
<mailto:tovm...@gmail.com> <mailto:tovm...@gmail.com
<mailto:tovm...@gmail.com>>>> wrote:
If you don't want and don't have the time to
learn JS
you may as
well consider outsourcing the frontend work, I've
worked in places
that did just that and everybody was happy, the
internal team
liked python and the outsourced company people
liked
UX and JS.
On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 6:09 PM, Jani Tiainen
<rede...@gmail.com <mailto:rede...@gmail.com>
<mailto:rede...@gmail.com <mailto:rede...@gmail.com>>
<mailto:rede...@gmail.com
<mailto:rede...@gmail.com> <mailto:rede...@gmail.com
<mailto:rede...@gmail.com>>>>
wrote:
Hi,
You don't describe to what extent you need
to use
JavaScript -
IOW, what problem you need to solve with
JavaScript?
Depending you needs you might get away
with basic
knowledge
and usage of some helpful JavaScript
library/framework.
On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 12:44 AM, Mike
Dewhirst
<mi...@dewhirst.com.au
<mailto:mi...@dewhirst.com.au>
<mailto:mi...@dewhirst.com.au
<mailto:mi...@dewhirst.com.au>>
<mailto:mi...@dewhirst.com.au
<mailto:mi...@dewhirst.com.au>
<mailto:mi...@dewhirst.com.au
<mailto:mi...@dewhirst.com.au>>>> wrote:
I have avoided javascript like the plague.
However it
seems I have to bite the bullet.
Interestingly, there are
now a number of Python -> Javascript
transpilers.
http://stromberg.dnsalias.org/~strombrg/pybrowser/python-browser.html
<http://stromberg.dnsalias.org/%7Estrombrg/pybrowser/python-browser.html>
<http://stromberg.dnsalias.org/%7Estrombrg/pybrowser/python-browser.html
<http://stromberg.dnsalias.org/%7Estrombrg/pybrowser/python-browser.html>>
<http://stromberg.dnsalias.org/%7Estrombrg/pybrowser/python-browser.html
<http://stromberg.dnsalias.org/%7Estrombrg/pybrowser/python-browser.html>>
Where would be a good place to start a
discussion on the
topic?
I am self-employed with multiple
demands on
my time so I
cannot afford to allocate sufficient
time to
learn it let
alone undertake formal Javascript
training. My
hope is to
pick it up by osmosis and wonder if a
transpiler would help.
Thanks for any pointers
Mike
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