Steve Litt wrote: > On Sun, 3 Jan 2016 09:09:28 +0000 > KatolaZ <kato...@freaknet.org> wrote: > > > On Sat, Jan 02, 2016 at 01:11:07PM -0500, Steve Litt wrote: > > > On Sat, 2 Jan 2016 09:08:37 +0000 > > > KatolaZ <kato...@freaknet.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > If your root fs does not change every five minutes, you can have a > > > > custom kernel with ext4 and a few other drivers compiled in, and > > > > get rid of initramfs altogether. Then, the usage that has been > > > > done of initramfs in the last few years is just an overkill, > > > > IMHO. > > > > > > This was exactly my point. Why can't Devuan put the ext4 kernel > > > module and the few other drivers for ext4, on directories directly > > > off the root partition, plus the stub of an rc file to bring the > > > thing to the mounted state. This would make Devuan the only distro > > > giving the user an easy choice of initramfs or not. > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > just because not everybody wants to use ext4, not everybody has the > > same disc controller, not everybody has the same configuration of > > raid/lvm/whatever. > > Let me repeat myself. I think it would be an excellent idea for Debian > to offer, not to require, as an option, not as the default, an easy way > of booting sans-initramfs for very simple ext4 configs with no LVM or > Raid or LUKS on the root partition. > > Not for everybody, not for every setup, just for this one fairly simple > and fairly common one. > > > Again, the installer of a distro should be able to > > install on *any* supported hw/sw configuration. There are basically > > two ways to do so: > > > > 1) build and ship a kernel with everything compiled-in, which might > > not be any more a viable option, since it would be impossible in some > > cases to load the full image into RAM at boot time; > > Obviously the preceding is not going to be done. > > > > > 2) use an initrd/initramfs with all the potentially useful modules, > > and let the kernel figure out which of them have to be loaded during > > boot, which is what happens now. > > The preceding is what I envision continues to be the default way of > booting, and I also hope that the initramfs is kept as simple as > humanly possible, with only the complexity needed to mount / and > maybe /usr. > > But there's a third option, that could be offered as a non-default > choice: > > 3) Compile ext4 and only the most common hard drive and SSD drivers > into a separate and optional kernel that doesn't call an > initramfs, but merely runs an rc file as an init. That rc file > does nothing but get all the drives mounted and then exec the > normal init (sysvinit). > > Repeating: This would be an option, not the default. It would be > optional, not required. It would work only with ext4 and the very most > common hardware drivers. > > The cost of this would be more work for the Devuan developers. The > benefits would be: > > 1) Simpler, more transparent startup for setups that qualify. > > 2) Very good educationally, because adding initramfs to the mix really > complicates matters while trying to learn the rudiments of bootup. > > 3) Publicity. AFAIK, Devuan would be the only major distro to offer > this option. > > Let me repeat just one more time: I mention this as a non-default > option for the simplest of ext4 setups.
Hi Steve, I would like to see Devuan as a source for innovation in the community in future and I think it's a great idea to offer a simpler kernel and boot process. It could be accomplished with a modest effort, and would simplify subsequent administration. I know it's been a discipline of Devuan's default deciders to avoid enhancements to Debian outside the minimum needed to achieve Devuan's initial goal of init freedom. > If anyone wants to debate me about this, please read the preceding > sentence, so at least you're debating a position I really took. If you start to develop the pieces involved, it's probably just a matter of time before they can be brought into the distribution, again conditional on our achieving Devuan's preliminary goals. cheers, Joel > Thanks, > > SteveT > > Steve Litt > January 2016 featured book: Twenty Eight Tales of Troubleshooting > http://www.troubleshooters.com/28 > > > _______________________________________________ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng -- Joel Roth _______________________________________________ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng