Well put Jerry. --* SPOILER ALERT -- what follows is somewhat long and detailed and carries quite technical language. If that bores you.....LOOK AWAY....look away!*
When I made my earlier post complementing the software, I didn't expect the small wave of negative rebuttals I would get. Ahhh, but I should have known better and anticipated that. I'll use a very good example. I used to run large motorcycle rallies for many years. It required numerous hours of research, then numerous hours of on the ground research, which required multiple trips to "Ground Zero" for the rally.....all by the way on my dime.....requiring me to burn up vacation time..pay for travel, hotels, etc. Pounding the ground to work with the Chamber of Commerce, the Police Department, the Hotel for the rally, City leaders, restaurants....the prep work goes on and on. Reach out to vendors to get door prizes. Then pack all this stuff up and go to the rally when it actually occurred. Then work the majority of the time at the rally....countless hours. It was exhausting. And....here's my point (and THE CORRELATION TO DX4WIN) - at the end of the rally, you'd typically have a FEW people complement you and tell you what a terrific job you had done (these were quite often the people who had experience putting on similar events and KNEW firsthand the hard work and countless hours involved). You'd have likewise a few squeaky wheels. who blasted you.....usually about something like "you gave me $100, but you gave it to me in $1 bills....and I'm going to complain now long and loud". Typically, the negative "whiners" are the ones everyone hears, of course. And then....THE VAST MAJORITY....say nothing. No thankyou, no whining...they just expected a great "product"....got it....and they're happy and content and just go on their merry way..... And that.....when I got a few loud/vocal complaints from the usual suspects....a few compliments from the usual suspects....and mostly heard NOTHING.....that was exactly when I knew I had put on a quite successful event. And from my experience, that's the same thing that goes on in most things in life. The majority just take things for granted. Whether it's free, costs money.....doesn't really matter. You typically hear the few compliments, the few complaints......and mostly, a "bunch of nothing". I wanted to be one of the ones complimenting, because I know a lot about what it takes to pull it off. To put it in specifics (*LOOK AWAY if you're neither Technical, nor care about what I have to say - *), in the software world....you have a bunch of user requirements. You, the Coder (or company doing the coding), have to prioritize what you can address and how much time you have to address it. In the Government, they have large boards that meet quarterly or annually and prioritize these requirements. But it's not that simple. You have Problem Reports (PRs) that get prioritized. Usually on a scale of 1-5. With 1s and 2s being high priority...typically MUST fix type stuff. You know, the code is BROKE type stuff. Stuff that's lower...like 3-5 priority stuff....is stuff that can wait, or you find a Known Problem and Workaround (KP&W). Like....some of the posts here about being able to upload stuff to LOTW with a few clicks or steps. Is it automatic like some want? No. But it's a KP&W......it's a workaround. So often, as it's Priority is between 3-5, it gets moved back DOWN the priority list to fix. Stuff left over from prior boards often become Deficiency Reports (DRs). Now, they MUST be brought up at the next board when determining priorities. You get the picture. It's more complex than meets the eye. Granted, a logging program isn't as involved (perhaps) as an operating system for millions of folks, but it's more complex than first thought perhaps? Then you have to build Use Cases for all the requirements you're going to address. How will they actually be implemented. Then figure out how your'e going to Code it once you have Use Cases. And then the real fun part. TESTING. You have to do System Integration Testing (SIT). Does the code load properly? Is it able to boot up and the main functions work? Now no doubt the most demanding part of Testing.....Regression Testing or ROT. Did i break something. Sure, we seemed to have added some new features. But all this stuff has to work together. You'll never hear the end of the complaints from those same "loud folks" if you broke something that worked perfectly before! And what makes ROT especially hard....and quite TIME DEMANDING....is attempting to predict all the negative things that can be done to the code to break it. What if this user puts letters in a date box? What does it do? Does it give an error message? Does it break the code and require a reboot? ALL POSSIBLE INPUTS...have to be documented....scripted for testing.....and then tested and documented. Didn't get the results you expected? Something breaks with an unexpected input. Back to coding again. And again. And again. Every time you think you finally have it right, you think of another negative thing that can be entered that breaks the code. Regression testing is long and tedious....if done right. Usually you try to automate all regression testing...using something like HP ALM Quality Center or the like. You write test scripts to automate as much of that Regression testing as possible to save some time. And finally, of course, Capability Integration Testing (CIT). Does the new stuff the customer demanded....and I coded....actually WORK! Of course ...if not....back to coding. Of course if CIT breaks something and I recode, that could break something that worked before....even something that worked after ROT testing. So even bringing as few as 6-10 new REQUIREMENTS to market....can take anywhere from 6-18 months in my experience. Note I said REQUIREMENTS. Often what customers want are NOT requirements, but rather capabilities. Requirements are defined as SINGULAR testable items. They stand alone. Saying I want a chrome carb cover would be a requirement. Saying I want a V8 engine (with that chrome carb cover) would be a capability, which would require possibly 100s of requirements to build that capability. That of course, takes alot of time coding and testing (and rework to refine and get it right). So yea.....a small software company has to decide on their priorities....how much time and effort can they spend...is the risk worth the reward....etc. I know....I've lived that life (on a somewhat larger scale I suppose). I still do today. I run the CIE environment where the US Air Force does ALL their software testing and development. I have over 75 Programs with multiple software products and 1000s of users each doing test and development. That's why I can say...from knowledge and experience....for the money I paid (and if memory serves me right....in the 25+ years I've used the product.....I've only been required to pay 2 or 3 times....and the payment was pretty darn small for the reward I got)....I've MORE....MORE than got my money's worth and I'm a very happy camper. And if I weren't, I'd contact the Vendor....voice my concerns. If I didn't get satisfaction that way, I'd research other products...and if need be....move on. I'm happily staying right here. Some won't, so be it. And some will no doubt leave.....and eventually come back IF....I say IF....that grass aint greener in the other pasture. 73....and please take this for what it's worth. My opinion, and that's all. I don't work for DX4WIN. I just use the product (happily). If you don't agree, no sweat....agree to disagree. Just please be civil about it, that's all I'd ask. Some of the private emails I got after my initial post were kind of over the top. It's just a logging program after all, we've surely all got "bigger fish to fry" in life than to argue about a radio program with animosity? Again, I just thought it was time some of us that LOVE the product ....for what it is....more than what it could be....spoke up and said so. I respect that some of you don't share my enthusiasm for the product. Please respect that I do like and support it.....albeit maybe from a little different background/perspective than many here............. K4TK Tim Moore PMP On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 3:53 PM Jerry N9AW <jerryn...@gmail.com> wrote: > And if Paul (developer) were to implement these things you ask for, would > you be willing to pay for it? The man and his family have to eat too. > Or how about this, would you be willing to pay an annual fee for upgrades > to DX4WIN ? Other loggers with robust features demand this. > I too am a very long time user of DX4WIN. I don't recall the year I > started using it but it seems like the early 90s. As I recall, Paul said > long ago that he was freezing any further development of DX4WIN. That > lasted for a long time. When we went from vers 8 to vers 9, I considered > that a gift. I can't even recall if we paid to get the new version, if we > did it was something like $35. For someone to whine and complain that they > want their money's worth, I mean come on. I'm sure you'd throw $35 over > the bar in one evening or spend that for a mediocre lunch. The other thing > to consider is that perhaps Paul does not have time to devote to DX4WIN. > Maybe, he has just lost interest. > > Here's a thought, write to Paul direct in stead of the user group. We're > not the ones that will be doing any develop of DX4WIN. > > 73 > Jerry, N9AW > > On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 10:38 AM Paul F6EXV <f6...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > rue Bruce, the search is just great with DX4Win..... > > But the program is not being adapted to the changes in our ham world... > > FT8, LoTW, Clublog... > > Is it that hard to implement these improvements ? > > All other programs do that, why can't Clublog do it too ? Is it that > hard ? > > > > But no matter what we Europeans say about it, there will still be no > > reaction from the developpers. > > I fully agree with Ricardo : if we are not informed of the future of > > DX4Win, we will leave... > > The fact we "insist" indicated that, yes, we like DX4Win, vut we could > > like it even more if we were listened to.... > > > > 73 > > Paul F6EXV > > > > Le 16/04/2020 à 17:27, Bruce Blackley a écrit : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree 100% with Mike and Tim. I have gotten into discussions with > > several > > > of my friends over the phone that use other logging programs. If I ask > > them > > > a question about how many countries they have confirmed on a certain > > band or > > > some other information, they muddle around and can't figure out how to > > pull > > > out the information they need. In Dx4Win you can search for just about > > any > > > information you need,in most cases,in a matter of seconds . What good > is > > a > > > logging program if you can't track your progress the way you want. > Dx4Win > > > does everything I need it to and more. If it's not broken, don't fix > it. > > > Unless you are the Government. Then you fix it until it is broke. > > > > > > > > > > > > 73 > > > > > > > > > > > > Bruce > > > > > > > > > > > > WD4LBR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------Original Message------- > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Michael Mathis > > > > > > Date: 4/16/2020 11:03:17 AM > > > > > > To: dx4win@mailman.qth.net > > > > > > Subject: [Dx4win] Very Satisfied with DX4WIN > > > > > > > > > > > > I am very satisfied with DX4WIN: User since 1999, never posted to > group - > > > silent majority? Minority?? Whatever, it matters not. I like it! Avid > > DXer > > > and very casual contester. Upgrades are welcome and appreciated. > Freedom > > to > > > choose the program that we like and prefer is wonderful! Thank you Paul > > and > > > Jim! > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike, N4MIK > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > > > > > > DX4WIN mailing list > > > > > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/dx4win > > > > > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > > > > > > Post: mailto:DX4WIN@mailman.qth.net > > > > > > > > > > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > > > > > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > > DX4WIN mailing list > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/dx4win > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > > Post: mailto:DX4WIN@mailman.qth.net > > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > ______________________________________________________________ > DX4WIN mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/dx4win > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:DX4WIN@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ DX4WIN mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/dx4win Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:DX4WIN@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
