At 10:09 AM +0300 5/31/03, Danny Van den Berghe wrote: ... >What it is finally called doesn't matter to me. I only use the term 'repudiable >e-gold' for the sake of discussion here.
Not-confusing e-gold customers matters VITALLY to me, though. They come from a world which has been overrun for decades with fiat money and weird ideas about what money really is, and this new experience is already confusing-enough for them, so please, for me, let's call the new, separate system by a new. less-confusing name: Repudigold! >But for the end user he will probably think he is using e-gold, because when he pays >a merchant with 'repudiable e-gold' he will do his spend from the normal e-gold user >interface and from an ordinary e-gold account. >So he will acctually hardly notice he is using a different system. Well, I sure notice when I'm using 1MDC! >There will only be a page where he can go to do a chargeback. > And this is the part that troubles me. I get the feeling you'd like that page to have "e-gold.com" involved in it, and that's exactly the thing I DON'T want, at all, ever! My apologies if you're actually asking the fine (but not free.....) folks at Repudigold.com to give them a refund from _Repudigold's_ e-metal account in your imagination here, but I don't see how this can be nearly as seamless as you think it could, unless I'm misunderstanding something. > > >> Fraud through >> payment repudiation is what drove many users to e-gold in the >> first place, IMO. > > >Sure, but fraud through payment non repudiation is also driving users to repudiable >systems. Really? I don't see much of that. >It is not only the buyers that are cheating, there are also dishonest merchants or >look-like-merchants. >And consumers hate it to be caught in a scam, just like merchants hate it to have >faudulous chargebacks. > >Repudiable payment, the seller (merchant) is taking the risks. >Non repudiable payment the buyer is taking the risks. Right, but until there was e-gold, option 2 literally DID NOT EXIST unless you count bank wires, which have their own problems... >In many cases the merchant is in a better position to take the risk, because he has >the ability to add this risk as a cost price factor into the price of his product. >While the buyer has nowhere to go when he is cheated. Cheated buyers who are prepared have lots of options, the issue comes when a buyer expects things that don't exist, and that's one problem no payment system will ever solve -- users do NOT wish to read account user agreements before something bad happens to them, only after. This is human nature (but it's an aspect of human nature Jim Ray does NOT wish to pay-for, unless I'm guilty of it!!). >Moreover the average Joe is so scared these days, not in the least because of >government policies towards that aim (a scared person is more easy to exploit..), >and as long as that is the case we cannot reasonably expect the average consumer to >become the risktaker. > I disagree. I take risks every day as a consumer. Others do too. ... >So, I would not target the people that already have access to repudiable systems. >That would be competing with the established players indeed. >Just start with the others, which is probaly 80% or more of the world population. > Well, someone's always free to do that. I want that 80% to get used to the characteristics of Better Money, which include NONrepudiation. I fail to see how Repudigold will benefit them as much as e-gold, and like I keep saying, those Repudigold employees aren't doing this as a charity for the unwise/unready who don't wish to research merchants' reputations before spending to them, they're doing it to make money. Repudigold fees are gonna be SUBSTANTIALLY higher, IMO. > >> Finally, even if there are no cards to loose or steal in a repudiable >> system, there are still account numbers and passphrases, which >> have the advantage (to crooks) of remote-giveaway-theft in many >> cases, with very low risk -- albeit high levels of (spam) annoyance. > > >What do you mean by remote-giveaway-theft? The spam that tries to steal. I just got two "from Paypal" this AM. If 0.2% of spamees click on a fraud link (and I'm convinced the number is greater than that, by far!!) the criminal effortlessly steals their info. The ones today wanted my SSN, as well as credit card details. People believe, in spite of all evidence to the contrary, that email is a secure and safe medium of communication. It's not (unless you encrypt with PGP, which almost no users can do at the moment) -- email is merely convenient, period. >And people will use their e-gold account number and passphrase to do a repudiable >e-gold spend , so where is the problem? In the confusion of not-calling it Repudigold when it's NOT e-gold. It is like confusing a spear with a boomerang -- not good for beginner- hunters out there who really-need to be learning about both, IMO. JMR --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
