Dear Howard,
I found some notes I made the last time this matter came up. David Starobin
has covered most of these points, but I have more details that may interest
some. He said he found two Giuliani pieces particularly Beetoven-like. Does
anyone remember which pieces he mentioned? I don't know how to use Wayne's
archive. P.S. Howard posted the info. Thanks Howard.)
I've often looked askance at this supposed Beethoven-Giuliani relationship. By
providing the context for some of the evidence he provided may assist readers
to draw their own opinion whether Giuliani and Beethoven were intimate friends,
or just casual acquaintances. Giuliani probably had a closer personal and
professional association with Ignaz Moscheles, which may be the reason why
Beethoven refers to both of them in the letter and conversation books.
"Meine Emphelung an giuliani" (My regards to Giuliani) appears at the end of a
note (not even a letter) to Ignaz Moscheles about four missing horn parts for
the Overture in C (Op. 115) which Moscheles had borrowed for one of his
concerts. No first name is given.
The note is dated Dec. 20, 1823. Mauro Giuliani left Vienna for Rome in 1819,
and by the end of 1823 was in Naples, living there (apparently) for the rest of
his life. (d. 1829). Why didn't Beethoven know he was no longer around?
The other reference David Starobin mentions is in the conversation books. Being
deaf, visitors would have to write their words, but Beethoven would speak his.
So someone answered one of his questions with "Giuliani ist in Rom, Moscheles
in Paris." (The other comments by that hand are unrelated--the person writing
has not been identified according to the latest edition of the conversation
books.)
I tried to track down that dinner party several years ago. It involved
Hummel's fiance (and Hummel?? ), Beethoven and Giuliani. It's related in a
1934 Hummel biography by Karl Benyovsky which I haven't seen. According to
Heck, the author credits Ludwig Nohl (1831-1885) with the information, told
several years after the event. But Heck does not give the source in Nohl's
work, and I was unable to find it in any of the books by Nohl I consulted (he
was a prolific writer on music, but his books are considered out-moded these
days). So it's been a dead end for me, and I wish Tom had been more specific.
But it's a cute story, and I am always suspicious of cute stories about famous
composers. As related, at the dinner table Beethoven couldn't keep his hands
off Hummel's fiance, and pawed and pinched her all evening. But if it's
apocryphal, why mention Giuliani?
The reference to Giuliani and the Seventh Symphony is a curious one. His name
appears in an unpublished letter dated 1813 intended for the Wiener Zeitung,
Vienna's leading newspaper. It's a bit of self-promotion on Beethoven's part.
The concert (Dec 8, 1813) was so successful, it was going to be repeated for
Beethoven's benefit in early 1814 (Jan 2nd). A shorter announcement did appear
in the Wiener Zeitung, but without naming the musicians. It certainly refers
to Giuliani the guitarist because the list is of the most famous musicians then
in Vienna, and we know that Giuliani enjoyed great fame. He also advertised
himself as a 'cellist and 'cello teacher.
He speaks about how he had been the conductor of the assembled orchestra which
included some of Vienna's most renowned musicians. What instrument Giuliani
played, presumably cello, is not mentioned. "Herr Schuppanzigh lead the first
violins, ... Herr Spohr [who describes Beethoven's exaggerated motions on the
podium in his Autobiography] and Herr Mayseder ... were content to play the
second and third places, ... a certain Kapellmeister, Salieri <!!> by name, did
not disdain to give beat to the drums and cannonades [the Battle Symphony was
also premiered], ... and Herr Siboni [a tenor] and Herr Giuliani too were in
the lowest seats."
It was just because he was the composer, Beethoven writes, that he had such an
exalted position above these worthies, and that he would have been otherwise
content to "take over the big drum, as Hummel did." It was indeed an orchestra
of musical celebrities, and to point out that fact seems to be the letter's
purpose. It's self-promotion by means of name-dropping.<g>
And surely the symphony was conceived much before Giuliani was brought in as
'cellist, and so the part was probably not written with him in mind. The
'cellos get some shining moments, but no more so than in any other of his
symphonies. Beethoven used as many as a dozen 'cellos that year in orchestral
music in the Redoubtensaal, so Mauro had company. There were 17 basses!!
Orchestras back then were bottom heavy.
ajn
----- Original Message -----
From: Howard Posner
To: Lute Net
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 12:38 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Beethoven influences
The level of whimsy around here is exceeding my capacity. Just as I'm
getting comfortable with not getting Rob's joke about the Bourbons,
Roman asks how prominent the cello part in Beethoven's Seventh Symphony
is, a question which has the hallmarks of a Zen koan.
A couple of posters thought it was significant that Beethoven was not
"inspired" to write music for Giuliani. It isn't. The Big B was
rarely inspired in that manner, and wrote remarkably little music with
any specific performer (other than himself) in mind. On those rare
occasions when he did, it was usually written for a wealthy patron, or
written to be performed in concert with Beethoven: the horn sonata,
opus 17, for Johann Stich (a travelling horn virtuoso); the two cello
sonatas, opus 5, for Duport (the leading cellist in Berlin); and the
Kreutzer sonata, opus 47, for Bridgetower (a famous kreutzer player).
I'm not sure what Beethoven would have thought about the logistics of
guitar with piano, but in any event Giuliani showed up in Vienna about
the time Beethoven was giving up public performance, and I can't think
of any Beethoven work written for any particular musician in those
years, with the exception of Wellingtons Sieg, written for Maelzel's
Panharmonicon, and (in the same concert) the seventh symphony, which
would have been written without cellos had not Giuliani volunteered his
services.
For what it's worth, Beethoven quarreled with both Stich and
Bridgetower shortly after the premieres of "their" works and never
spoke to either of them again.
EUGENE BRAIG IV wrote:
> Beethoven was inspired to write for Josephine de Clary's plucked axe,
> and I doubt it had anything to do with being profoundly inspired by
> her professional grade of musicality.
I'm guessing the inspiration came from the word "countess" before her
name.
Howard Posner
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