Sara: Thanks for the post. The next paragraph is sarcasm, so please don't take it personal. BEGIN SARCASM: Is "chivalry" a four letter word? On the opening doors thing, I often open car doors for women, but wouldn't be caught dead opening a car door for an uninjured man. No complaints so far, but I'll make it a point to check if a woman is a feminist before opening car doors in the future. (Non-feminists say they like the courtesy just fine, and I don't think they're lying.) What else can I not do for you? END SARCASM Actually, you're recommendation of getting a deep sense of history is a good one. It dawned on me that all the pent-up anger and frustration women have is the same kind of stuff I've been venting at management. And for the exact same reason! I'm sick of managers (male or female, but all managers) rigging the system for themselves, and then denying it. Women are sick of men (weak or strong, but all males) rigging the overall male-dominated system for themselves, and then denying it. In both cases, we're fed up and letting folks know it. (But in essence we're fighting the same thing: domination and oppression.) I know that my furious attitude is damaging to my career (I can live with that), and often hurts people's feelings who don't really deserve the anger (I have trouble living with that.) Sometimes it's hard to distinguish the good guys from the good ole boys. So lately I've been bucking managers in general, to try to get the point across. Which I suppose is exactly what you guys have been doing to me when I say anything that smells patronizing or sexist. Fair enough. Complaining about the flames I've received would be hypocritical. And, frankly, I do have a lot to learn about the history of my sexist ways. But I think we need to ask ourselves whether we go too far with our anger. Anger gets attention, but it turns a lot of people off and has the danger of escalating into violence. We reap what we sow. What companies have been learning about management is that restructuring the system to eliminate layers of supervisors helps people get along. In other words, don't throw out the people, just change their job descriptions. I guess what I'm getting at is, don't throw out half the population (men) and try to replace it with a matriarchy. Do try to exorcise the "diseased thinking" that you talk about in men. But aim toward a partnership at the end. Because, ultimately, we do need each other. Al [EMAIL PROTECTED] It's the Millenium. "We must love each other, or we must die."