In a message dated 98-09-07 16:16:30 EDT, you write:
<< "We" did not bomb.....etc By doing so you align yourself
with your government's disrespect for "those unfortunate side effects" of the
missile attack, aka 'collateral damage'....Basically I'm sure there could
have
been a more imaginative response to the atrocities in Africa.
>>
Hi Richard,
Yes - I said we - because I am also to blame because I pay taxes to my
government which I knowingly am aware they use that tax money for national
defense - the bombs that we pay for kill people YUK! - I take some of the
blame _ I wish I could be bold like Woody who boycotted taxes because of hemp
and not pay my taxes for that particular reason - I do feel that national
defense is important - however, I wish there was an easier way to deal with
foreign bullies like Bin rather than bombing them! I am against any kind of
war weapons - however, if they are armed and we are weak - they will win and
they represent anti-democracy - and I don't want that either! I restate that
the racisim here Richard is theirs - they are prejudice against the democratic
people who are free - they hate us for that - they hate our religious beliefs
- their hate has caused these atrocities not our defense! Free their women
and they will follow a better path!
Please do not turn the tables around to make terrorists look like the innocent
victims of Americas racisim! That is an enormous misunderstanding! We do
not hate them because they are a different skin color or culture - well I
don't anyway - however they hate us - they are the racists!
As for the ecofeminist theories - I have a lot of reading to do - thanks for
the info.
Peace!
Angela
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mon Sep 7 14:32:00 1998
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 16:31:19 EDT
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Why men batter women
In a message dated 98-09-07 14:19:36 EDT, Miguel writes:
<< The big problem is that the U.S. used terrorist measures to respond to
terrorism. They could have been a lot more specific in who they went
after, rather than killing innocent civilians. This was no different than
a terrorist who plants a bomb to take out a certain person, not caring
that everyone else in the area is at risk too.
>>
Hi!
I contend here that they were merely fighting fire with fire! They needed to
get a strong message out to the terrorists - unfortunately killing innocent
civilians in the process. How else can you reach terrorists? Do you think
they have cell phones? Somebody call them and them we want democracy, freedom
and peace - stop the bloodshed with them!
Love!
Angela
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mon Sep 7 14:39:45 1998
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 16:39:27 EDT
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Get to the root of the problem!
Ok as to meditation & prayer. (shaking head) what ever makes you think I
don't just because I use words & books to argue a point you are wrong I do
alot of both. I don't have much of a choice in the matter as my Goddess & i
have conversations on a regular basis. These come in the form of visions,
dreams & just plain old theophanies. I don't have to fast, or do strange
drugs or go on some strange quest to achieve them in fact i tend to question
any vision aquired by such means. The primary reason I mentioned that book
other than the fact that it addresses the issues we were discussing eloquently
& concisely is that it aggrees with the vast majority of what my Goddess has
told me about the universe & it's problems & causes. Incidentally the
burrning bush of biblical fame is an actual plant, which has berries & is
slightly poisonous & would probably cause a person consuming any part of it to
have some pretty interesting hallucinations. Further I was raised catholic,
YUCK! & had many occasions to pray to that God & the need which caused me to
do so. I got no where fast where. My Goddess gave me solutions, that God
gave me silence. Hence me conversion. I have studied the bible, both in and
out of acedemic settings & have come ot one personal conclusion; I will NEVER
follow a religion where a god is dominant over all other or where there is no
Goddess at least of equal stature to her consort/god. Further the book in
question does discuss why there is no balbance either in our society &
consequently in the religions that dominate our world. & she discusses
solutions both at a personal level of what we can do & at a larger global
level. She also forcast what we all should know will happen if we don't fix
the direction we are headed as soon as possible. Besides if tha bible (a
book) is acceptable for moral instruction & discussion why aren't other books.
In my relgion (ecletic wicca, in case it wasn't obvious) I'm the solitary
equivalent of a high priestess & if I choose to be with a coven I'd probably
be eldered. I've been practising faithfully for over 10 years. I have psi
talents that would have had me burning at the stake very quickly in the
burning times. These talents have become a burden on more than one occssion
giving me information I would have rather remained ignorant of. Because of
this I have on more than one occassion been called femi-nazi usually when I
was actually being quite subtle about it. I find people who use such terms
are just people terrified of change & trying their best to stop it by any
means neccessary & the most convenient one at the moment is to debase the
speaker who is advocation change by either saying they are being extremist or
by saying their words are nonsense. If I could have a dollar for every time
I've been told what I had to say didn't matter because I was female I'd be
rich & would make the neccessary changes the old fashioned way, I'd buy them!
Incedentally dragons were & are sacred to many Goddesses, it makes me wonder
about the dragon mentioned in Revelations. HHHHmmmm! ;->
_________,---------.____------.___
/_______ `--._______ `--.____ \\
/__.-' `-----.____ `--.____\\`_/_
,' ___ `---.___ ___// `-.
/ _.-' )' ``---' \ \
| / | . ' |
/ / / | ' ___ ) | |
| | | _/` _ ` _,' _ `/) ' |
\_ `--._\__`--'_\-___ _,-' '-` ___ _/
`---.____ `--.__-_ /_)____, __/ ,`-'
`------__> `-------(/(/-'-\)\)
"let sleeping dragons lie"
"the goddess will shortly shake off her fleas"
Aedrienne
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mon Sep 7 14:43:07 1998
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 16:42:54 EDT
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: communites
dumb question are those books you mentioned?
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mon Sep 7 15:02:30 1998
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 17:02:04 EDT
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: why men batter women
In a message dated 9/5/98 7:01:38 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<<In a message dated 98-09-05 01:48:55 EDT, you write:
<< No - rape is NOT sexual - (that is a male MYTH) - it is about power and
domination and sometimes punishment.
Marguerite >>>>
Having been raped I have personal experience with it & it is sexual profoundly
so. It is the ultimate violation one person can do to another. Murder
doesn't even top it. At least the murdered person is dead & doesn't have to
live with it for the rest of their life & if you don't acknowledge that you do
live with it then your in denial & still a victim not a survivor. The fact
that our society virtually condones it by rarely prosecuting it, ostrasizing &
stigmatizing women who accuse it, & making jokes about womens' sexual rights,
attributes, etc. is evidence that our society uses it consciously or not to
control one half of it's population which is incidentally one of the 2 sexes.
the myth is that it is not & that is what those running our society, largely
men, would have you believe in order to further the status quo & keep us from
becoming empowered. Because if we become empowered (heaven forbid) than they
will loose some of their power over us.
_________,---------.____------.___
/_______ `--._______ `--.____ \\
/__.-' `-----.____ `--.____\\`_/_
,' ___ `---.___ ___// `-.
/ _.-' )' ``---' \ \
| / | . ' |
/ / / | ' ___ ) | |
| | | _/` _ ` _,' _ `/) ' |
\_ `--._\__`--'_\-___ _,-' '-` ___ _/
`---.____ `--.__-_ /_)____, __/ ,`-'
`------__> `-------(/(/-'-\)\)
"let sleeping dragons lie"
"the goddess will shortly shake off her fleas"
Aedrienne
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mon Sep 7 15:04:25 1998
by dryctnath.mmu.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #2)
for [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 21:59:25 +0100
From: Richard Twine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: 'race' & collateral damage
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hi Richard,
>
> Yes - I said we - because I am also to blame because I pay taxes to my
> government which I knowingly am aware they use that tax money for national
> defense - the bombs that we pay for kill people YUK! - I take some of the
> blame _ I wish I could be bold like Woody who boycotted taxes because of hemp
> and not pay my taxes for that particular reason - I do feel that national
> defense is important - however, I wish there was an easier way to deal with
> foreign bullies like Bin rather than bombing them! I am against any kind of
> war weapons - however, if they are armed and we are weak - they will win and
> they represent anti-democracy
there isn't a 'democratic' country on this planet that I know of. Show me a
country without, for example, a class system or without gender inequality? please
do, i want to emigrate there..:)
> - and I don't want that either! I restate that
> the racisim here Richard is theirs -
please dont think that me slurring the US government is a slur on the american
people, no way.im sure that many americans are not racist.
> they are prejudice against the democratic
> people who are free
now, now, dont go romanticising your own country. i would think there are many
underpriveleged americans who are not 'free' in any meaningful sense.
> - they hate us for that - they hate our religious beliefs
> - their hate has caused these atrocities not our defense! Free their women
> and they will follow a better path!
here here. sadly the islamic and christian misogynies are both alive and well. the
major world religions actually have common ancestors, pre AD eg. some forms of
gnosticism.
> Please do not turn the tables around to make terrorists look like the innocent
> victims of Americas racisim! That is an enormous misunderstanding!
I dont think i was doing that. All terrorists deserve to be brought to some kind
of justice. I was only pointing out the US governments disregard for civilian
casualities.
> We do
> not hate them because they are a different skin color or culture - well I
> don't anyway - however they hate us - they are the racists!
we we we? just cos you pay your taxes doesnt mean that you are responsible for
missiling people in far off countries. It dismays me that so often Americans take
a critique of their government as a critique on themselves. Lose the patriotism,
burn all flags. I know that if you were US President things would be a hell of
alot better.....
>
>
> As for the ecofeminist theories - I have a lot of reading to do - thanks for
> the info.
well when you're done you could maybe report back and the list can have a
discussion on it.ok, im posting too much,
best wishes,
richard
