I agree Joe. When a person is too "blinded by the light" maybe it is
best not to bother. If the christians weren't masters of brainwashing,
they would never have stayed so plentiful.
Sarah
To Angela's response to my message you write:
> Just as Uncle Tom Preached the virtues of slavery to his white
> masters, you preach the virtues of submissive obedience to your
> father god. In either case, we should just consider the source every
> time we see the message. Joe
>
>
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wed Nov 25 13:01:41 1998
From: sarah clifton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: A Lurker Finally Posts
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 15:08:18 -0500
I totally agree. I joined the list only recently precisely because I
wanted to discuss the implications and applications of ecofeminist
theory, as well as the theory itself.
May I pose a question for discussion?
As we have been discussing, ecofemism requires a recognition, followed
by a rejection of authoritarian systems which inherently place womyn,
animals, and nature in a subordinate position. We have, I believe,
consitently defined such a system as patriarchy. However, the
methodology with which we approach the symptoms of patriarchy, i.e.
Capitalism, Imperialism, Domination, etc. have a strong overlap with
both socialist (Marxian) and anarchist philosophy. My question is this:
How do you all, as ecofeminists, approach movements for labor-equality,
anti-militarism, etc.? Do you find more overlap between socialism and
feminism, anarchy and feminism, or no overlap at all?
In Sisterhood,
Sarah
> ----------
> Reply To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 10:11 PM
> To: STUDIES IN WOMEN AND ENVIRONMENT
> Subject: A Lurker Finally Posts
>
> > Dear Ecofem Colleagues,
> >
> > I supposed I have been a "lurker" for too long (having been on this
> list
> > since it was initiated in 1994-95?). It has been a long time since
> I
> > posted anything to this listserv but find that the recent direction
> of
> > discussion, especially that which has been provoked by Angela's
> defense of
> > Christianity, is much too over-wrought and of limited in value --
> > especially for a group of people that is presumably concerned with
> actual
> > struggles -- i.e., as opposed to unending ideological debate.
> >
> > There are so many issues that we could address in this group. Allow
> me
> > some examples:
> >
> > 1) the relationship of anti-racist struggles to ecofeminist theory
> and
> > practice; for example, the Southwest Network for Environmental and
> > Economic Justice, (SNEEJ) has brought anti-racist and feminist
> demands
> > together in calling for an end to the militiarization of the economy
> in
> > New Mexico and other parts of the Southwest. Is anyone on this list
> even
> > familiar with actual environmental justice and ecofeminist
> campaigns? We
> > are always so caught up in ideological debate that we seldom seem to
> > address issues of strategy and tactics that ENGAGE us in actual
> struggles
> > or that provide an opportunity to learn from actual struggles that
> are
> > unfolding in our own communities (barrios, ghettos, reservations,
> inner
> > cities, suburbs, bioregions, etc.).
> >
> > 2) the relationship between worker-owned and self-managed workplace
> > cooperatives and the building of alternative organizational forms
> that
> > reflect ecofeminist principles (think of the hundreds of examples of
> third
> > world women's cooperatives or similar examples within the US). What
> might
> > we learn from a discourse over the democratization of the workplace?
> >
> > 3) the Zapatista challenge - i.e., the implications of new social
> > movements for ecofeminist ethics and strategies for the circulation
> of
> > struggle from community to institutions.
> >
> > 4) the ecofeminist contribution to the critique of western science
> and
> > technology; from time to time I have seen postings on the struggles
> > against genetically-modified foods, biopiracy, patents on life, etc.
> Why
> > can't we discuss the campaign against the patenting of life? Is
> this not
> > a critical issue for ecofeminists concerned with the threats posed
> to
> > ecological and cultural diversity by biotechnology, GATT, NAFTA,
> etc.?
> >
> > I could list a dozen or more such issues that would allow us to take
> > discussion into new areas of immediate strategic, tactical,
> > epistemological, and ethical significance. Shall we give it a try
> and
> > limit our dogmatic ideological debates to private communications
> among and
> > between the members of the listserver?
> >
> > More later.....
> >
> > Yours warmly,
> >
> > Devon Peņa, Associate Professor
> > Sociology Department
> > and Rio Grande Bioregions Project
> > Colorado College
> >
> >
>
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wed Nov 25 13:56:55 1998
From: "Joe E. Dees" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:57:10 -0600
Subject: Re: Clitorectomy and Christianity
Reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In-reply-to: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date sent: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 06:04:22 EST
Send reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: STUDIES IN WOMEN AND ENVIRONMENT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Clitorectomy and Christianity
> In a message dated 98-11-24 23:56:55 EST, you write:
>
> << I abide in love with the Holy Spirit and she is pissed at this outrage.
> I shall not cease to indict patriarchal Christianity with sharp sword tongue.
> I shall continue diligently until every injustice committed
> against woman and nature in the name of God is relinquished.
>
> This is the judgement and the requital in true love and forgiveness.
> Not personal belief, but sociobiological liberation from oppression.
>
> Chris.
> >>
> Hi! Chris, No I am not pissed - I asked you many questions which apparently
> were unanswered. Again, do you practice magic? Why magic and how does that
> relate to the Holy Spirit of God?
>
> Peace!
> Angela
>
Angela, you sign all your posts "Peace!", but give us no peace with
your constant cybervangelizing. Are you a Jehovah's Witness?
You seem to be afflicted with a disease common among missionary-
minded christians, the Big Lips disease. Your lips are so full of your
own truth that while continually preaching it they obscure your eyes
and ears, preventing you from seeing the world as it is or hearing
the truths of others. I hold out little hope for you; this disease is
usually inflicted upon malleable minds in their youth, and only the
exraordinary ones are able to keep their minds from setting around
it like concrete when they reach adulthood and beyond.
Regretfully, Joe
