Luke and Ecolog:

Are there any ethical issues about the practice of jobbing-out journals to 
for-profit entities and taking a cut for the organization? Or do organizations 
get anything for their referral? Certainly, though, no officers of scholarly 
organizations would personally or professionally benefit from such 
"cooperation" would they? 

>From Bergstrom and Bergstrom (Front Ecol Environ 2006; 4(9): 488-495) at the 
>link ( 
>http://octavia.zoology.washington.edu/publications/BergstromAndBergstrom06.pdf 
>) available in their 2001 paper linked by Butler: 
". . . from the broader community perspective, the scientific community as a 
whole would benefit if overpriced journals were displaced by journals priced at 
or near average cost. The fraction of library budgets that is currently going 
to the shareholders of large commercial publishers could instead be used to 
provide services of genuine value to the academic community. Professional 
societies and university presses could help by expanding their existing 
journals or starting new ones. Individual scholars could advance this process 
in many ways: by contributing their time and efforts to the expansion of these 
non-profit journals, by refusing to do unpaid referee work for overpriced 
commercial publications, by self-archiving their papers in preprint archives or 
institutional repositories, and by favoring reasonably priced journals with 
their submissions." 

It appears to be simple and direct advice for a step in the right direction. 
Both of their papers (2001, 2006) contain interesting details that are shocking 
but not surprising. The citation data are particularly interesting. 

I seem to recall some relatively recent publicity regarding the quality of much 
of the research itself in some of the "top" (heavy?) journals that might place 
its/their credibility into question. Does this sound familiar; if so, can 
anyone provide citations/links?

Why didn't we hear about Bergstrom and Bergstrom's papers via the world media? 
Aren't reporters getting tipped off (phone calls, not just press-releases, 
please), or did the latest gossip on some teen-star's drug habit eclipse the 
item? 

WT

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Luke K. Butler" <luke.but...@tufts.edu>
To: <ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU>
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 6:58 PM
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Open Access and Intellectual Imperialism Approval 
required


> Carl Bergstrom and Theodore Bergstrom have produced an incredible  
> website about the economics of journal publishing, including  
> speculation about the future of open access journals.
> 
> http://octavia.zoology.washington.edu/publishing/publishing.html
> 
> 
> ********************************
> Luke K. Butler
> Post-Doctoral Associate
> Department of Biology
> Tufts University
> 165 Packard Ave
> Medford, MA 02155
> ph: 617.627.4036
> fax: 617.627.3805
> ********************************
> 
> 
> On May 11, 2009, at 2:26 PM, Jane Shevtsov wrote:
> 
>> Strictly speaking, you're correct. However, the purpose of copyright
>> law is to reward people who do creative work. That would be us. The
>> journal's contribution is coordinating peer review, formatting the
>> paper and, most importantly, disseminating the paper. For this, they
>> get paid by subscribers and sometimes page charges. That seems more
>> than fair -- really, the for-profit journals should be paying us, the
>> way magazines pay writers. Allowing them to dictate what we can do
>> with our work after publication seems rather excessive! As a practical
>> matter, are there any cases of scientists being sued or prosecuted for
>> posting their publications on their websites?
>>
>> Anyone interested in these issues should read Lawrence Lessig and John
>> Perry Barlow, particularly the latter's essay "The Economy of Ideas:
>> Selling Wine Without Bottles on the Global Net".
>>
>> Jane Shevtsov
>>
>>
>> On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Gavin Simpson  
>> <gavin.simp...@ucl.ac.uk> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 2009-05-10 at 11:14 -0400, Alexey Voinov wrote:
>>>> Instead of or in addition to boycotting and protesting, I think  
>>>> there is a much
>>>> simpler and effective solution. Ask your kids. If they can share  
>>>> their music,
>>>> why can't we share our papers? It's called peer-to-peer  
>>>> technology and requires
>>>> just a little bit of good will from ourselves. All we need is to  
>>>> assemble our
>>>> collections of pdf articles that I bet each and everyone of us  
>>>> has on our hard
>>>> disks, and make them available for sharing.
>>>>
>>>> Students are already doing this. See this article:
>>>> http://eaves.ca/2009/04/28/education-where-copyrighters-and- 
>>>> publishers-are-the-pirates/
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately these efforts seem to be sharing the fate of  
>>>> Napster, attacked by
>>>> lawsuits. However this can and will still develop without any  
>>>> centralized
>>>> services on a peer-to-peer basis as supported by bit-torrent and  
>>>> other software.
>>>>
>>>> So it's really up to us to make it happen.
>>>
>>> Only if you condone copyright theft.
>>>
>>> Invariably, journals do not grant you a non-exclusive right to do
>>> anything with your own publications that you might have in PDF  
>>> format.
>>> Sometimes they allow you to post to a website your final version  
>>> before
>>> journal formatting. Sometimes a journal may allow you to do this only
>>> after a certain period of time, or they may allow you to post their
>>> version of the manuscript on your (or your institutes's) website  
>>> after a
>>> period of time (6-12months say). It all depends upon what rights you
>>> signed away when you completed your copyright transfer form.
>>>
>>> Reproducing or distributing any publications that are not your  
>>> own, that
>>> are not covered by a licence that allows you to do this, provided  
>>> to you
>>> by the publisher of said content, would also constitute copyright  
>>> theft.
>>>
>>> Circumventing these restrictions, could, in some countries, be
>>> considered violation of copyright laws.  Doing this with software  
>>> in the
>>> US for example cold make you fall foul of the DMCA:
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DMCA
>>>
>>> Whilst I'm no fan of the current predominant publication model,  
>>> nor many
>>> of the associated citation indices, rampant disregard for  
>>> copyright law
>>> is *not* the way to solve these problems.
>>>
>>> You should exercise your right to do with your work (i.e. your final
>>> draft, not a journal compilation/formatting of your work) as you see
>>> fit, and publish it in journals that have more open policies  
>>> regarding
>>> works published by them. Or try to retain some of the rights you wish
>>> for, for example by attaching a Creative Commons Scholars Copyright
>>> Addendum to the publisher's copyright transfer forms, in an  
>>> attempt to
>>> negotiate retaining some rights:
>>>
>>> http://sciencecommons.org/projects/publishing/
>>>
>>>
>>>> So it's really up to us to make it happen.
>>>
>>> So, I agree with the sentiment, but not with the means by which you
>>> suggest we go about it.
>>>
>>> G
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Alexey Voinov
>>>> ____________________________________________________________________ 
>>>> _
>>>> !!!****   please note new e-mail address: aavoi...@gmail.com   
>>>> ****!!!
>>>> ____________________________________________________________________ 
>>>> _
>>>> Chesapeake  Research  Consortium  Community  Modeling  Program     &
>>>> Johns Hopkins University Dept. of Geography and Environm.  
>>>> Engineering
>>>> 645 Contees Wharf Road, P.O. Box 28, Edgewater, MD 21037
>>>> TEL: 410 798-1283;  703 880-1178        WWW: http:// 
>>>> www.likbez.com/AV
>>>>
>>>> Fellow, Gund Institute for Ecological Economics,University of  
>>>> Vermont
>>>> President,Int.Envir.Modeling. and Software Soc.,http:// 
>>>> www.iemss.org/
>>>>     New book: Systems Science and Modeling for Ecological Economics
>>>>             http://books.elsevier.com/companions/9780123725837
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Date:    Sat, 9 May 2009 16:56:12 -0700
>>>>> From:    Wayne Tyson <landr...@cox.net>
>>>>> Subject: Re: Open Access and Intellectual Imperialism  Approval  
>>>>> required  Re: [ECOLOG-L] Teaching Biostatistics !!!
>>>>>
>>>>> (Suggested replacement post)
>>>>>
>>>>>   Ecolog:
>>>>>
>>>>>   "In my university I do not have access to literature sources  
>>>>> like =
>>>>> Biological Abstracts for example to reach the authors and  
>>>>> articles . . =
>>>>> ."
>>>>>
>>>>>   This is an excellent example, unfortunately, of how pricing =
>>>>> intellectual resources out of range for "outsiders" is a moral =
>>>>> indictment of much of academia. This man--or any man or woman or  
>>>>> child =
>>>>> (especially) should never have to hit a university firewall, be  
>>>>> required =
>>>>> to pay tens of dollars ($30, $40, and more) to download a pdf  
>>>>> file, ad =
>>>>> nauseam. Think of the burdensome expense and effort required on  
>>>>> the part =
>>>>> of so many even to gain the privilege of Internet access in the  
>>>>> first =
>>>>> place!=20
>>>>>
>>>>>   Those truly concerned about the future of the earth and its  
>>>>> life, even =
>>>>> civilization, should realize that the history of intellectual =
>>>>> development is one of free exchange of ideas and information,  
>>>>> not its =
>>>>> conversion into profit centers. It is not the struggling who  
>>>>> should pay =
>>>>> the comfortable, it is the comfortable who benefit from free =
>>>>> intellectual synergy that compounds like a breeder-reactor, who  
>>>>> should =
>>>>> pay forward and backwards to ensure rather than obstruct such  
>>>>> exchange.=20
>>>>>
>>>>>   At long last, hath academia no sense of decency? Are there no =
>>>>> institutions out there sufficiently well endowed and clearly =
>>>>> beneficiaries of the wealth of intellectual struggle handed down  
>>>>> from =
>>>>> people like Dr. Voltolini throughout history (and still do-- 
>>>>> Copernicus, =
>>>>> Darwin . . .) who will turn this embarrassing state of arrogant =
>>>>> possessiveness around?
>>>>>
>>>>>   Can you imagine having to make this kind of request at every  
>>>>> stage of =
>>>>> your own process of intellectual enquiry?=20
>>>>>
>>>>>   How is it possible that, this many years into one of the most =
>>>>> transformational achievements of human society, that Dr.  
>>>>> Voltolini =
>>>>> should still be barred from journal access that costs zero to  
>>>>> provide?=20
>>>>>
>>>>>   Why not, at the individual level, that academics simply boycott =
>>>>> journals which charge for access and publish in open access  
>>>>> journals? =
>>>>> While these may not be perfect at the moment, might not such a =
>>>>> second-stage transformation accelerate their development and  
>>>>> foster =
>>>>> rather than retard intellectual synergy?=20
>>>>>
>>>>>   WT
>>>>>
>>>>>   PS: David has suggested that I explain "how journals (e.g.  
>>>>> those of =
>>>>> the Ecological Society) are supposed to pay to publish papers if  
>>>>> nobody =
>>>>> has to pay to read them." This email is intended to illuminate  
>>>>> the =
>>>>> problem and hear from others before deigning to suggest how all  
>>>>> of the =
>>>>> complexities of this issue should be resolved. The first step, of =
>>>>> course, is in recognizing the problem or refuting the assertion  
>>>>> that =
>>>>> there is a problem. I do not pretend, in as brief an email as  
>>>>> possible =
>>>>> and still state my position unequivocally, to cover every aspect  
>>>>> of the =
>>>>> subject. I do, however, know of institutions that have cancelled  
>>>>> journal =
>>>>> subscriptions. I believe that very large institutions (e.g. the =
>>>>> University of California Library may have negotiated price  
>>>>> reductions =
>>>>> from some journals; I am not up-to-date on this case, but the UC  
>>>>> Library =
>>>>> did raise the issue quite vigorously a few years ago.=20
>>>>>
>>>>>   I will offer the following observations, and invite correction  
>>>>> if they =
>>>>> are in error. I hope this helps=20
>>>>>
>>>>>   1. The major "clay paper" journals are VERY profitable.=20
>>>>>
>>>>>   2. Publishing in such journals is a political balancing act,  
>>>>> not to =
>>>>> mention that author charges are often involved. (I am not against =
>>>>> reasonable author charges if they do not inhibit publication on  
>>>>> the =
>>>>> basis of merit and are collected on the basis of the ability to  
>>>>> pay by, =
>>>>> and the benefit to, sponsoring institutions.)
>>>>>
>>>>>   3. It is impossibly expensive for independent researchers or  
>>>>> those =
>>>>> whose affiliations do not subscribe to Internet journal service  
>>>>> to scan =
>>>>> great volumes of literature. Abstracts are wholly inadequate for =
>>>>> literature "review."
>>>>>
>>>>>   4. I recognize that publication costs must be met, but =
>>>>> scientific/scholarly/intellectual publications should be  
>>>>> financed by the =
>>>>> "nobility," not enrich them. Peer reviews should be the  
>>>>> obligation of =
>>>>> the reviewers to the discipline involved.=20
>>>>>
>>>>>   5. I suggested a boycott, but only intend that measure for  
>>>>> those =
>>>>> entities looking at pdf downloads (for example) as ways to  
>>>>> embellish =
>>>>> their bottom-lines, particularly when they gouge for them  
>>>>> (charge out of =
>>>>> proportion to their actual marginal cost). Since intellectual  
>>>>> articles =
>>>>> are in relatively scant demand, they are not likely to be priced =
>>>>> according to pricing theory anyway, so the benefiting  
>>>>> institutions =
>>>>> should pay the actual costs--plus a margin for a cushion- 
>>>>> endowment =
>>>>> perhaps.=20
>>>>>
>>>>>   6. I do not think David or anyone else should have to be  
>>>>> bothered with =
>>>>> sending materials to requestors who are deprived of equal =
>>>>> privileges/rights. While this is generous in the extreme, there  
>>>>> is still =
>>>>> a faint sniff of (unintended) patronizing in that, and the  
>>>>> requestor =
>>>>> must be driven to make the request in the first place. Most  
>>>>> simply =
>>>>> suffer in silence.=20
>>>>>
>>>>>   7. My primary question to Ecolog remains "Is this intellectual =
>>>>> imperialism or not?"=20
>>>>>
>>>>>   8. One who is "in" simply cannot know what it is like to be  
>>>>> "out."=20
>>>>>
>>>>>   ----- Original Message -----=20
>>>>>   From: "VOLTOLINI" <jcvol...@uol.com.br>
>>>>>   To: <ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU>
>>>>>   Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 2:17 PM
>>>>>   Subject: [ECOLOG-L] Teaching Biostatistics !!!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   > Dear friends,=20
>>>>>   >=20
>>>>>   > I am teaching Ecology and Biostatistics and I am working on =
>>>>> different ideas to teach data analyses for Biology students.=20
>>>>>   >=20
>>>>>   > Now, my students will measure several moluscan shells from  
>>>>> polluted =
>>>>> and not polluted marine sites (it is a simulation!) and if they  
>>>>> read =
>>>>> about the subject they will be more interested in the analysis!  
>>>>> Do you =
>>>>> have articles about the "effect of pollution on shell size" ?=20
>>>>>   >=20
>>>>>   > In my university I do not have access to literature sources  
>>>>> like =
>>>>> Biological Abstracts for example to reach the authors and  
>>>>> articles and =
>>>>> thats why I requesting some articles.=20
>>>>>   >=20
>>>>>   > Thanks for any help!!!
>>>>>   >=20
>>>>>   > Voltolini
>>>>>   >=20
>>>>>   >=20
>>>>>   >=20
>>>>>   > Prof. Dr. J. C. VOLTOLINI
>>>>>   > Grupo de Estudos em Ecologia de Mamiferos (ECOMAM)=20
>>>>>   > UNITAU, Depto. Biologia, Taubate, SP. 12030-010.=20
>>>>>   > Grupo de pesquisa ECOMAM: http://jcvoltol.sites.uol.com.br/=20
>>>>>   > Fotos de projetos e cursos: http:// 
>>>>> jcvoltol.fotoblog.uol.com.br/=20
>>>>>   > Exemplo de um curso de ecologia de campo: =
>>>>> http://trabiju.blogspot.com/=20
>>>>>   > Fotos artisticas: http://voltolini.fotos.net.br/texturas=20
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>> --
>>> %~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%
>>>  Dr. Gavin Simpson             [t] +44 (0)20 7679 0522
>>>  ECRC, UCL Geography,          [f] +44 (0)20 7679 0565
>>>  Pearson Building,             [e] gavin.simpsonATNOSPAMucl.ac.uk
>>>  Gower Street, London          [w] http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucfagls/
>>>  UK. WC1E 6BT.                 [w] http://www.freshwaters.org.uk
>>> %~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> -------------
>> Jane Shevtsov
>> Ecology Ph.D. candidate, University of Georgia
>> co-founder, <www.worldbeyondborders.org>
>> Check out my blog, <http://perceivingwholes.blogspot.com>Perceiving  
>> Wholes
>>
>> "Political power comes out of the look in people's eyes." --Kim
>> Stanley Robinson, _Blue Mars_ 


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