EDI is very political. The issue of globalization is central. This group has frequently dealt with off-topic issues, it is established by and for EDI professionals, and has never been moderated or expected to refrain from political commentary.
Many technical professionals in the U.S. have been negatively impacted by the emergence of India as a source of less costly labor. I am one of those. To ignore the impact or to deny the differences between India and western countries is to consign oneself to obsolescence. When people are passionate, they need an outlet. Passions on this subject run high in technical circles. If you don't feel like participating, please consider clicking the little X above any EDI-L post with the <Off-Topic> message identifier, or create a rule to move these flagged posts to the deleted folder. All the best, Art Douglas Chief Consultant Blackwater Network 877-464-8915 -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of sam pervez Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 9:52 AM To: Leah Halpin; Craig Dunham; [email protected] Subject: RE: [EDI-L] Re: <OFF-TOPIC> Where Executives are put up when they go to Bangalore I though this is EDI platform. No politics or personal opinion. Can we please keep it like that? Help each other out with technical stuff. Political and personal opinion is like a wild fire spread so fast so rapidly some time it is very hard to control them. SO I AM REQUESTING EVERYONE RESPECTFULY PLEASE PUT A STOP TO THIS TYPE OF DISCUSION AND JUST BE POSITIVE. Please keep it simple stupid (KISS) no INSULT TO ANYONE BUT I ALWAYS BELIVE ON THAT. BP To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 09:24:31 -0800Subject: Re: [EDI-L] Re: <OFF-TOPIC> Where Executives are put up when they go to Bangalore Craig,I do not disagree with you. However, my main point is that very different economy and government you talk about. At least from my experience in working with Indians (I can't speak for Okimba or Maria), their "management" and government take the lions share of the money and live in mansions that yes, cost the equivalent of $35,000US. You and your mother (and myself and probably some others here) have worked long and hard at minimally paid or "demeaning" jobs to get where we are today. These people can't. They get the education (at what sacrifice by their families I can't even imagine) and then they have to PAY their employer to be ALLOWED to work for them. Or, they get sent to the US to work at such a low wage (sounded good before they left home) so that two professional working adults can only afford to live in a one bedroom apartment with a card table for furniture (no ipod, no fancy SUV) while all the money stays in the pocket of the managers inIndia. They're hostages because their company "sponsors" their visas and they can't do anything but go back home to worse. They're forced to pad their resumes and lie in interviews by these same managers. Bribery and corruption are institutionalized in India, this doesn't make for a very level playing field for any of us. This is the real problem. Greed, lying and disregard for what I'd call some pretty basic human ethics. Leah----- Original Message ----From: Craig Dunham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Friday, November 30, 2007 12:03:59 PMSubject: [EDI-L] Re: <OFF-TOPIC> Where Executives are put up when they go to BangaloreHmmm... where to begin....? where to begin...?!?OK... we'll start with the original concept - the hotel.... looking at those images, I can assure you that the amenities offered by this LUXURY hotel are not that much different than you'd find at LUXURY hotels throughout the rest of the world - including right here in the good ol' USA.... Some of those images look like they could have come off of the website for nearly ANY of the properties in Las Vegas.... Those Palm Tree lined walks, with water features and water falls - very similar to The Tropican, Mandalay Bay, The Mirage and others.... The pool tables, fully stocked bar and leather conversation pits - well, they abound, as well, in nearly any of the Las Vegas resorts.... And what of the playgrounds of Hawai'i, Jamaica, the Bahamas, Florida...? The "country resorts" in the pastoral areas of the American North East (Maine, New York, New Hampshire) and the rest of the country (such as Arizona, California, Oregon, Washington.. ..)....? Do I really need to cover how many hotels that we have in this country that can easily rival the offereings of this Banaglore hotel property.And I chose to reply to this post from Dylan to Leah's reply - because he mentions a valid point - about how some of the tips and salaries of the new market economy can help to eliminate those slums - but he doesn't really go far enough with it....And no, I'm not a cold hearted bastard with what I'm about to say....When we look at the mere pennies and dollars that some of the workers in other countries make daily - hell, maybe even weekly - we're basing that upon what....? Our own view and our own economy.... We're basing this on the fact that many of us drink bottled water that costs a dollar..... we drink 4 dollar cups of Starbucks... .. eat "six dollar burgers".... spend hundreds on a fancy cell phone or MP3 player.... thousands on a TV or a stereo... tens of thousands (and hundreds) on a vechicle.... hundreds and millions on a house...But, see, we're basing the outrage on how we feel for them.... But how do THEY feel...?!? Do we only need to look a few miles south of our own borders into Mexico (and further south into South American countries) to see how well people can "live" on a few bucks a day...? Can you look at some of those "children fund" commercials to see that for just 40 bucks a month you can help little Maria or Sanjeet or Okimba have healthy drinking water and school books and food to eat...? The point is, is that their economy is VERY different than our own... Their political system is VERY different from our own.... They don't have 4 buck Starbucks... . and fifty thousand dollar SUVs and pick-up trucks.....Instead, they have a far simpler life than we have.... They can take that 5 dollars a day that Sanjeet (or whomever!) makes being a hostess or a waitress at that Bangalore hotel and use it to buy a week of food and shelter for themselves.. .. they don't see the admittedly over-the-top luxury features of the hotel as a bad thing...Why? Because it takes a place like that (and the places you'll find in other parts of the world!) to make that 5 bucks a day.... and the tourists and traveles from the more advanced countries (like the US, the UK, Japan and many other industrialized nations) who want and, yes, NEED that kind of place to stay, that makes it possible for Sanjeet to make her 5 bucks.... or her counterpart, Maria, over in the Phillipines. ... Or the other Maria in Brazil..... or Okimba in Tanzania.... .Yes, it is horrifying the conditions that many of these people live in... The level of poverty that they all face.... But look at it through their eyes.... in many cases, it's NOT poverty.... because they don't squander their money on anything besides the necessities. ... They don't buy the starbucks and the iPods.... the fancy phones and other techy gadgets.... they're not buying the Estee Lauder and the Clinique.... Why? because it's not needed....And, BTW, I've lived in near poverty like that - where you don't know where your next meal will come from or you have hot dogs on Monday and "frankfurter soup" on Tuesday... My mom had 5 kids and a fairly worthless husband.... so she struck off on her own and made a future for herself - and her 5 kids - so that they... What's the line from "Gone With The Wind"? "As God is My witness, I shall never go hungry again!".....I've worked at some of those hotels and resorts in Las Vegas.... and made very little money doing it.... And I lived EVERY SINGLE DAY that I was able to live and work AND better My situation... . I thanked My mom EVERY SINGLE DAY for the decisions SHE made and the ethics SHE gave Me so that I would do whatever I could to better Myself and make ends meet... to get a job here or there and then get a better job.... I lived EVERY SINGLE DAY making the best of whatever situation I was in and looked at the road ahead to see where I was going....Yes, I know, that in those developing countries, they don't have those same kinds of opportunities. .... but they also have a vastly different style of life over there and you can't compare our Apples to their Raisins.... And Dylan makes a very valid point, as well, about how maybe their slums will go away.... and then we can worry about our own slums.... and that's true....In the US - far too many people are too ... I can't say PROUD, for pride has NOTHING to do with it... But we have many jobs that are not being done - or they're being done by our legal (and not so legal) immigrant workforce - all because some people think that they are too good or too ________ to take that 7 bucks and hour job mowing lawns or flipping burgers or punching keys at the Target or Wal*Mart or ______...... Instead, many of them would rather bitch about how there is no work to be had and go on welfare and live off of OUR backs and the work WE do... They make bad choices and we have to live with those consequences. ...From India to Mexico to China to Taiwan.... the poeple have a much different view of it - they look at the fact that there is a job that pays 50 cents per hour and they will work, work, WORK, for that job and do whatever they need to, because it IS a job.... it IS a way to buy food and housing and the needs of life...Ok... now that you either loathe Me or not - I'll get off the soapbox.... and I am sorry if I offended anybody or.... I'm not trying to pick on anybody or make any wars or enemies.... I'm just spouting My 2 bits on it..... and what a long 2 bits it was.... so I'll even apologize for the rant....Craig DunhamEDI Coordinator (amongst other things)Big 5 Sporting Goods.PS - the preceeding has been the personal views of the poster and do not represent the views of anybody else - not Yahoo, the EDI-L group, members of My family, places I've worked, and so on and so forth.... --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] com, "Dylan Hall" <dylanjhall@ ...> wrote:>> Hi Leah,> > I agree with you that the disparity between the opulence at that 'palace'> and the slums is saddening. But look on the bright side ... maybe some of> those folks who are slaving away in the hotel have spouses starting a new> career in the IT sector. The generous tips of IT execs and the amazing> salary their family members will bring in from their new EDI development ...> err I mean IT job will gradually eliminate those slums. Then we will only> have to worry about our slums!> I know that is not that funny, but I wanted to break the tension, so 'don't> tase me bros'.> > DH> > On Nov 29, 2007 11:57 AM, Leah Halpin <leahhalpin@ ...> wrote:> > > While ambience is neither in my vocabulary nor my dictionary, ambiance> > is .> >> > Being a mere mile from the airport does not seem very romantic to me.> > As for ambiance, being waited on hand> > and foot by people who are virtual slaves and go home to hovels without> > plumbing or electricity, makes the ambiance one of sadness, suppression> > and desperation, again, not very romantic. Guess I'm not just a glossy> > surface kind of gal.> >> > Try the Taj Mahal if you want romantic ambiance, at least the people> > who were forced to build this monument to love are> > dead and gone.> >> > Leah<!--#ygrp-mkp{border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:14px 0px;padding:0px 14px;}#ygrp-mkp hr{border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#ygrp-mkp #hd{color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:bold;line-height:122%;margin:10p x 0px;}#ygrp-mkp #ads{margin-bottom:10px;}#ygrp-mkp .ad{padding:0 0;}#ygrp-mkp .ad a{color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}--><!--#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc{font-family:Arial;}#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd{margin:10px 0px;font-weight:bold;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad{margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}--><!--#ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}#ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;}#ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}#ygrp-text{font-family:Georgia;}#ygrp-text p{margin:0 0 1em 0;}#ygrp-tpmsgs{font-family:Arial;clear:both;}#ygrp-vitnav{padding-top:10px; font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;margin:0;}#ygrp-vitnav a{padding:0 1px;}#ygrp-actbar{clear:both;margin:25px 0;white-space:nowrap;color:#666;text-align:right;}#ygrp-actbar .left{float:left;white-space:nowrap;}.bld{font-weight:bold;}#ygrp-grft{font- family:Verdana;font-size:77%;padding:15px 0;}#ygrp-ft{font-family:verdana;font-size:77%;border-top:1px solid #666;padding:5px 0;}#ygrp-mlmsg #logo{padding-bottom:10px;}#ygrp-vital{background-color:#e0ecee;margin-botto m:20px;padding:2px 0 8px 8px;}#ygrp-vital #vithd{font-size:77%;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:bold;color:#333;text-tr ansform:uppercase;}#ygrp-vital ul{padding:0;margin:2px 0;}#ygrp-vital ul li{list-style-type:none;clear:both;border:1px solid #e0ecee;}#ygrp-vital ul li .ct{font-weight:bold;color:#ff7900;float:right;width:2em;text-align:right;pa dding-right:.5em;}#ygrp-vital ul li .cat{font-weight:bold;}#ygrp-vital a{text-decoration:none;}#ygrp-vital a:hover{text-decoration:underline;}#ygrp-sponsor #hd{color:#999;font-size:77%;}#ygrp-sponsor #ov{padding:6px 13px;background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;}#ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{padding:0 0 0 8px;margin:0;}#ygrp-sponsor #ov li{list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;font-size:77%;}#ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{text-decoration:none;font-size:130%;}#ygrp-sponsor #nc{background-color:#eee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:0 8px;}#ygrp-sponsor .ad{padding:8px 0;}#ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold;color:#628c2a;font-size:100%;line-he ight:122%;}#ygrp-sponsor .ad a{text-decoration:none;}#ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{text-decoration:underline;}#ygrp-sponsor .ad p{margin:0;}o{font-size:0;}.MsoNormal{margin:0 0 0 0;}#ygrp-text tt{font-size:120%;}blockquote{margin:0 0 0 4px;}.replbq{margin:4;}-->__________________________________________________ ________Be a better sports nut! 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