Dethe- Thanks for these other links and comments (especially on wx).
Putting all the dozens of options together, I definitely think PyCairo makes a lot of sense because it has been adopted under Linux for GTK (and for Mozilla), so it almost certainly has a future, and would make a solid choice for the library of drawing my own cross-platform widgets, and would avoid me even wanting to write a cross-platform compatibility layer because I could just use it as is (which relates to the original poster's question, although in their case I can still see the point to a simplifying wrapper for education, though less so the need to have multiple back ends). However, there is an ancient Chinese proverb that when confronted with making a decision between 100 different alternatives(*), the best choice is always to "Run Away!". :-) So, along those lines, I decided to start using TK again (used in the first PataPata proof of concept) for several reasons including mostly it is the Python default. I am trying to use its widgets rather than draw my own, and ignore cross-platform font problems, speed issues, bitmap drawing issues, and so on for now. I wanted something to give me some fast progress on the HyperCard/widget front, and at least now I can drag TK buttons now under GTK 2.6 with proper feedback. Though who knows what else will be broken or missing -- I already had to borrow Idle's tree widget. :-) I am also stuck with the tk canvas for drawing (until I understand how PIL works? Or until PyCairo can render to a TK Canvas or Frame?) Also on the plus side, OpenGL should then be available through togl (though I have not tried that, looks like it may no longer be supported?). Still liking wx for general stand-alone applications though. :-) The funny thing is, since PataPata is its own Squeak-like beast, the TK widgets actually look kind of funky and retro in it. :-) Amazing how much of these decisions often hinge on easy installability and ready availability. So, as another comment for the original poster, can TK as a backend meet the basic graphics operations desired? --Paul Fernhout (*) Or a nasty rabbit with long sharp pointy teeth. Dethe Elza wrote: > "The full set of Ginsu 2D interfaces for only $9.95 a month? But > wait, there's more..." > > Mirra > http://www.ixi-software.net/content/body_software_mirra.html > "Mirra is a 2D openGL python library. It defines a set of classes to > render primitive shapes (Text, Pixel, Line, Circle, Rect, Bitmap, > BitmaPolygon) and manages rendering and user input (mouse and > keyboard). Mirra focuses on interaction and implements an event > listener and classes that receive mouse events. (in a way like > macromedia director or flash do). > It runs using pygame(SDL) but it can also be used under wxPython. > Mirra is also thought to teach students (basically design and > multimedia students) programming in python by playing around with > graphics." > > SVGDraw > http://www2.sfk.nl/svg > Create SVG (XML for 2D) images using Python. > > >>My head is spinning. :-) > > > Just wait till we delve into 3D %-) > > >>Just a thought: rather than a new GUI implementation, improving the Python >>GUI FAQ with lots of this information and pros and cons and so on might be >>a very valuable effort just by itself. > > > I think this is an excellent idea. > > >>So much of choices depends on >>specifics and tiny details. For example, I'm fairly happy with wx, but >>there is this bug with dragging certain widgets under GTK 2.6. > > > I haven't used wx for some time, but when I did it a) sucked on OS X, > and b) seemed to be a random mix of reasonably polished widgets and > half-baked crap that would be as useful as writing your resume in > crayon. It also suffers from being huge and very Windows-focused. I > can understand using it on Windows (beats using MFC, but so does > hitting yourself with a ball-peen hammer), but I think it goes > downhill as you move to Linux and drops off the cliff when you go to > OS X. Just my impression, though I've seen the same feelings > expressed elsewhere. I'd sooner use PyGame, and PyGame sucks for > general UI/event handling (by itself, there are libraries on top of > PyGame which help). > > Of all the systems, I think PyCairo has the most momentum (and also > has OpenGL hardware acceleration). Mozilla and GTK are both moving to > Cairo, so it's getting lots of real-world use, profiling, bug-fixing, > and speed-ups. This makes it a bit of a moving target, but the APIs > should be fairly stable even though the implementation is in flux. > > Caveat emptor. I haven't spent a lot of time with any of these (on the > Mac I can access Quartz from Python, which works for me). I'm > planning to explore further for an article or blog at some point, but > any recommendations I make at this point have to be taken with a huge > grain of salt. > > And of > >>course, I also want platform independent fonts (and I'm not sure how to >>get those best, wx uses sizers to get platform independent dialog looks, >>but the sizes may still vary across platforms). Maybe this 2D, 3D, and >>Python GUI efforts needs a web site or blog or something? Some place where >>the nitty gritty details gets hashed out? Might be one already? Kind of >>like this one for programming languages? >> http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/ > > > Maybe just the Python Wiki? > http://wiki.python.org/moin/ > > >>But specific to Python and graphics and user interaction? >> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=python+graphics >>Might be something to think about if it does not already exist. >> >>--Paul Fernhout > > > --Dethe _______________________________________________ Edu-sig mailing list Edu-sig@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig