Gregor Lingl wrote: > The logowiki can be found here: > > http://www.logowiki.net
Just as a general comment, running a current Mozilla under Debian (Unstable), with JavaScript turned on, there are no graphics on those pages for me when I click Run. Nothing happens. I don't mean to complain specifically about these pages, just to point out that while the supposed intent here is to make programming available to the masses by using a dumbed down environment like a web browser, in practice, this fails for me. Whereas, when I install Squeak or Python, it works. So, I think Alan Kay may be going in the wrong direction here in some ways, compared to Squeak. Not to say it might not be useful for certain audiences, just that it fails the "everyone" test, at least for me. And of course, the site was also inaccessible when I first learned about it (from Kirby's post to this list I think) from too much demand most likely, so it also failed the cost test. Presumably, they just could not afford to put enough resources into the project for "everyone". I've fought this battle before in other (commercial) situations. The web is good for many things. But if you want a rich client, forcing everything through a web browser involves making big sacrifices which often just often aren't worth it. And in my case, didn't even work at all! You can look up stuff on "rich client" vs. "thin client". For many situations, the answer is more often something like "java web start", where you can get the latest software installed with one click if you already have Java installed. And for Python, that means you can (in theory) launch any Jython program in one click from the web. I asked people to test that here a month or so ago http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/2006-June/006574.html and everyone here who tried it reported success in seeing a Java web start 3D application. (I myself had some problems with some of my attempts, but they were not on the Java end -- they were on machines not configured to properly do 3D graphics). And, the demands on a server for Webstart are probably lower than for interactive use like logowiki. To be clear I don't want to entirely discourage doing stuff with Python on the web, our your outlined idea to make a logowiki like thing for Python, just to point out that there are limitations to the approach and there are other approaches like Jython and Java WebStart with their own advantages (and disadvantages too, no doubt). Now, if people don't like the "Java" in "Java Web Start" http://java.sun.com/products/javawebstart/ perhaps it might be worth petitioning Guido to somehow bless a "Python Web Start" and rounding up some people who wanted to support that? You would still need to install Python though. And have a compatible version for the app you are downloading etc. Still, you don't "need" that -- because Jython + Java Web Start is right here right now. --Paul Fernhout _______________________________________________ Edu-sig mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig
