Here's another thread for an open archive. You'll notice this was censored in its original context (couldn't get past the admin group -- four individuals spread across time zones).
Academic freedom ala liberal arts culture means edu-sig is actually more open to diverse points of view. Given Pycon Atlanta is swiftly approaching, the idea of a prayer room makes some sense. Kirby ======== ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: <diversity-ow...@python.org> Date: Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 2:50 PM Subject: Request to mailing list Diversity rejected To: kirby.ur...@gmail.com Your request to the Diversity mailing list Posting of your message titled "Re: [Diversity] Admin: Kirby Urner now moderated" has been rejected by the list moderator. The moderator gave the following reason for rejecting your request: "Your message was deemed inappropriate by the moderator. Aahz: I was going to approve this message -- borderline as it was -- until I got to "dweeb". Feel free to edit and resubmit." Any questions or comments should be directed to the list administrator at: diversity-ow...@python.org ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: kirby urner <kirby.ur...@gmail.com> Date: Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 8:51 AM Subject: Re: Prayer room LCD To: divers...@python.org Note: this message was at first rejected by Aahz because of the expletive in the last sentence, which I have removed. It should now be suitable for publication. Kirby ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: <diversity-ow...@python.org> Date: Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 9:06 AM Subject: Request to mailing list Diversity rejected To: kirby.ur...@gmail.com Your request to the Diversity mailing list Posting of your message titled "Re: Prayer room LCD" has been rejected by the list moderator. The moderator gave the following reason for rejecting your request: "Your message was deemed inappropriate by the moderator. Aahz: Sorry, if I have to reject what is otherwise a borderline message because you crossed the line, you need to rewrite it to be well within the borderline." Any questions or comments should be directed to the list administrator at: diversity-ow...@python.org ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: kirby urner <kirby.ur...@gmail.com> Date: Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 1:33 PM Subject: Re: [Diversity] Admin: Kirby Urner now moderated To: Rami Chowdhury <rami.chowdh...@gmail.com> Cc: divers...@python.org On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 2:47 AM, Rami Chowdhury <rami.chowdh...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Saturday 17 October 2009 13:52:35 kirby urner wrote: > > If you get an LCD going, you could rotate through the religious icons > > depending on what's on the schedule, with time booked for Subgenius of > > course > What, you mean like a crescent popping up five times a day? I don't think that > would work, personally, although I am definitely pro a prayer room. Can anyone > suggest who I need to approach with the prayer room suggestion? > The point is to show off how geeks are able to share their spiritual side in a conference setting in a smooth multi-cultural way that accepts diversity i.e. if you end up with a separate room for each tradition, that'd probably represent a failure (wasteful, poor design, ineffective). It was already suggested on this list that people coordinate amongst themselves if wanting to visit a local religious establishment e.g. if there's a synagogue or mosque or even Christian church in Atlanta, maybe people could organize going together. Atheists might get together at the same time, along with Rastafarians or whatever. Conference management would have little to do with this, but could at least mention the possibility in the printed program, maybe simply list a few religious institutions nearby, much as many programs already list eateries (restaurants) and pubs -- again, showing some official acknowledgment that geeks have a spiritual side (I'm sorry if the word "geek" is an offense word to some here, however my plan is to keep using it as that's how I talk and I don't think diversity always means giving up one's own native language in exchange for some corporate sani-speak). Intelligent use of LCDs seems a hallmark of the future of geekdom i.e. these conferences are going to make more and better use of them no matter what. Whether this extends to a prayer room setting I have no idea, but it's worth talking about, that's what partly this list is for (right?). In my work with Vern Ceder on the posters (including submissions from user groups, even school children), we've talked about using LCDs more effectively. I brought up Subgenius as one of the traditions I'm involved with and which is already good at producing LCD content in some venues (e.g. the recent Devival I attended here in Portland with some of my friends). Some Python-related events I attend have LCD stuff going (not talking about a usa.pycon necessarily, more home grown, yet perhaps of interest to PSF anyway? Our PPUG meets at WebTrends and the LCDs there show company stuff, in between showing geek slides). Your idea of a crescent popping up five times a day sounds a tad dismissive and if I chose to feel offended, I could easily. I've been to a synagogue that doubles as a Christian church, and the appropriate religious icons come to the foreground just for that service, then go back into their compartments (this is easy because Jews meet on Saturdays and Christians on Sundays). We could have an LCD do somewhat the same thing (time share among traditions) -- really not such a bad idea, especially when it comes to opening one's mind to other traditions besides one's own (the whole point of some conferences) but yes, this idea may be beyond the imaginations of corporate dolts aka pointy haired bosses. I did request of the admin group that I be released from the penalty box (moderation) as many here thought that was a silly development and said so JFTR. Checking my personal email, I so far see no indication that my request has been honored. No one had the common decency to get back to me about my request except to complain that I'd bothered them, apparently during not working hours. I am a PSF member in good standing and know a lot of Pythonistas personally. I take offense at how shabbily I've been treated by this admin group and I must say I've rarely if ever encountered a more amateurishly managed list. If I get another bounce message when I press the send button, then this is further confirmation that divers...@python.org is and was a Bad Idea, though it may still have potential if we ever decide to it right and more seriously. diversity-sig anyone? In my view you can't have it both ways: if this is some kind of semi-private "cocktail party" as many claim, then it's not ipso facto and by the same token a policy-making body that should be sending guidelines to speakers, building up stress levels about whether material is "appropriate" or not. I give the PSF list credit for coming up with the Diversity Statement we actually used, with this group doing rather minor word-smithing. The contrast between the two lists is quite interesting, in terms of traffic and what gets done. I think the PSF is already way ahead of this list, in terms of thinking about Diversity (if you haven't been reading my blogs on this topic, then you probably don't know what I'm talking about -- and that's OK). Having "guidelines" show up out of nowhere, with the implication that your career could be damaged if you don't take them seriously, starts to sound Orwellian and many geeks don't take well to having nebulous behind-the-scenes others, just more geeks like themselves, trying to manage content, even in the form of guidelines. By what process were these developed? If it's not perfectly transparent, then maybe it's simply oppressive and should be resisted, not encouraged? The ApacheCon thing didn't look especially welcoming or well thought out. This sense of a lurking "we" that knows everything, is acting as Big Brother when it comes to what's offensive, may be an aspect of that subculture we *don't* want to imitate? We should debate this things, openly (with a public archive bloggers can link to directly), before we simply choose to imitate or copy. Original thinking on diversity issues is what we should be encouraged, not "hey, let's just do what everyone else is doing". We're proud Pythonistas, not dweebs, right? Kirby Urner PSF 09 > > ---- > Rami Chowdhury > "Passion is inversely proportional to the amount of real information > available." -- Benford's Law of Controversy > 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD) > _______________________________________________ > Diversity mailing list > divers...@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity _______________________________________________ Edu-sig mailing list Edu-sig@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig