First of all, I do not use every bell and whistle on my K3, and I don't have
every option available on my K3, even though it's nicely loaded to me. For
example, I do not have the second receiver. So, I do not use my existing
rig to it's "maximum use". Therefore, to extrapolate that I would need to
take advantage of every morsel in the 6700 or 6500 is apples to oranges.
Your second assumption brings up a valid point, but not the intended one.
Yes, a Mac Mini probably won't work well. But, not due to a lack of
horsepower. Flex's initial software is for Windows. Yes, I know all about
using Parallels and the other software thing that lets you run Windows
programs on Mac. I have a Macbook here as well as Windows and Linux. Macs
are notoriously expensive for what you get. I bet a $700-$900 (excluding
monitor, since you priced just the Mini) Intel i5 or i7 and Windows box
would work very nice with a Flex 6000 series. Feel free to yell at Flex for
not providing Mac support.
Joe, your math below assumes that every signal is at the same frequency and
the same phase in order to just add the levels, otherwise things don't just
add up like that. For example, even if two signals (both +50dBm) are on the
exact same frequency, but exactly opposite phases, they WILL CANCEL each
other out, you will end up with NO dBm. Nada. Not the addition of both
signals, as you seem to imply. Think vector sums of AC voltages, not DC
summing as a battery. Granted, there may be instantaneous flashes where
signals within the passband combine, but it's not constant like DC voltages,
as your math implies. Than goodness we aren't all on the same frequency and
the same phase.
Back to the main point, the new Flex radios DO come with traditional
filtering, if you need it. In Europe or near an AM broadcast station, it
may be necessary. However, I am sure that the receiver will have
significantly better dynamic range than the 96dB implied by a 16-bit RF A/D
converter. THAT's the point. 16-bits only gets you 96dB minimum to maximum
without "distortion". If there's any more dBs found, even in the harshest
test, there is processing gain. And most of the DSP and SDR world seems to
believe in processing gain due to decimation.
Once again, go do research on Digital DownConversion, decimation, SDR,
processing gain.
And, once again, go to the Flex web site on-line store. Don't believe me.
In black and white (not a tee shirt), it says the 6500 is $3,999 as a
pre-order, with a $1,200 deposit required to pre-order. Click the button
yourself. You might like the rig.
I agree that $200 per year for software support is a bit steep. BTW, I
don't think the rig stops working if you don't pay, you just aren't entitled
to updates. Oh, wait. My Macbook requires me pay for EVERY OS upgrade,
even in-between ones. I had to buy Snow Leopard just to have the right to
upgrade from Leopard to Lion. And that's on a dumb Macbook, which costs a
lot less that a Flex 6500. Maybe I should shut up now.
Reflector, I am done with this. Long live my K3! I have, and will continue
to defend my K3 on the Flex reflector just as vigorously. Sorry for the
off-topic bandwidth.
73,
Terry, WB4JFI
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Subich, W4TV
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2012 1:57 PM
To: wb4...@knology.net ; Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [OT] Dayton- new hf rigs?
> Given the amount of processing done inside the 6000 series, except
> for requiring gig-e, I'm not sure that a honking computer is
> required.
For maximum use, one will probably need a multiple display system -
or multiple computers for "radio" plus logger. Not something one
can do with a $699 Mac Mini.
> BTW, you really need to research DDCs. Previous comments about
> signals combining exponentially seems a little off. I think the
> military and other users (including Quicksilver, HPSDR, HiQSDR, and
> SDR-IQ users) might be slightly surprised by that math.
Do the math with multiple S9+20 (-53 dBm) to S9+40 (-33 dBm) signals
in a 300 KHz RX passband (or even with *no* front end filter as Flex
mentions in their brochure). The effect is two or three volts peak!
It's not simply an extra 3 dB for each additional signal.
With *measured* broadcast signals in Europe adjacent to and within
40 meters of 0 to +10 dBm on a simple dipole, that's going to be a
problem even with the (optional) bandpass filters for each amateur
band.
Yes, in reasonably quiet locations - without strong local signals -
the Flex BDR will be fine. However, if one lives close to an AM
"antenna farm" or in a high concentration of active amateurs, the
out of band issue can be severe on 160/80/40. The bandpass filters
will be necessary, out of band receive will be an issue and contests
with their high level of big signals may be a problem for everyone
with a DDC based receiver. due to ADC overload.
> Joe, if you go to the Flex on-line store, you will see the 6500 is
> $3,999, which I reported in an earlier email.
I did not see that ... and I looked for it. I was told $6K and $7K
by a Flex employee (wearing a Flex shirt) at the booth in Dayton.
73,
... Joe, W4TV
On 5/21/2012 1:30 PM, wb4...@knology.net wrote:
> Joe, if you go to the Flex on-line store, you will see the 6500 is
> $3,999, which I reported in an earlier email. Yes, that does NOT include
> the computer or the software "fee". Given the amount of processing done
> inside the 6000 series, except for requiring gig-e, I'm not sure that a
> honking computer is required.
>
> BTW, you really need to research DDCs. Previous comments about signals
> combining exponentially seems a little off. I think the military and
> other users (including Quicksilver, HPSDR, HiQSDR, and SDR-IQ users)
> might be slightly surprised by that math.
>
>> From a K3 lover, and not necessarily a Flex lover, but in the interest of
> "balance".
> 73
> Terry, WB4JFI
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Joe Subich, W4TV
> Sent: Monday, May 21, 2012 1:03 PM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [OT] Dayton- new hf rigs?
>
>
>> Flex is releasing the new 6500 and 6700 radios. Again, mockups and not
>> operational at Dayton. Price on 6500 is $3900 and 6700 around $7k
>
> Where did you see $3900 for the Flex 6500? I was told $5995 for the
> "single front end" radio and $7999 for the dual front end radio. That
> doesn't include a high end computer with multiple displays and a $200
> per year software license fee.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 5/21/2012 11:37 AM, Dave wrote:
>> They had brochures on the 3000 but no radio on display. Looks like
>> same size
>> and form as the Icom 7600.
>>
>> Kenwood had a mockup of the new TS-990. Back connections were covered and
>> not visible. Front display was showing a photo and was not a working
>> radio.
>> According to Kenwood the hardware design is just about finished but
>> firmware
>> has a long way to go. They are hoping for FCC cert in August and shipping
>> around November. (They didn't say what year!) Price is between $5k and
>> $10k.
>>
>> Flex is releasing the new 6500 and 6700 radios. Again, mockups and not
>> operational at Dayton. Price on 6500 is $3900 and 6700 around $7k
>>
>> Dave
>> wo2x
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Mike Rodgers
>> Sent: Monday, May 21, 2012 11:25 AM
>> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>> Subject: [Elecraft] [OT] Dayton- new hf rigs?
>>
>> Did anyone see or turn knobs on the proposed FTDX-3000?
>> Did Kenwood have the rumored new
>> Hf rig?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Mike R
>>
>> Play me some fiddle, but no stinkin' violin!
>>
>> Amateur/Ham Radio KE5GBC
>> HF& Echolink mobile
>> ______________________________________________________________
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> ______________________________________________________________
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