Am I led to believe, then, that because you and Toby don't like the subject that it shouldn't be discussed. That sounds good. I don't like SSB, no one should talk about it!
73, Tim Herrick, KQ8M Charter Member North Coast Contesters k...@kq8m.com AR-Cluster V6 kq8m.no-ip.org User Ports: 23, 7373 with local skimmer, 7374 without local skimmer Server Ports: V6 3607, V4 Active 3605, V4 Passive 3606 -----Original Message----- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Chester Alderman Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2014 12:22 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Side Effects of QRQ On The K3 To All: First, please keep in mind that this is our hobby. Being our hobby, you all know there are many aspects of it that, not all, but some of us enjoy and there has been a small percentage of us, Toby, myself, and others that have enjoyed running CW speeds in excess of 50 wpm. It should be quite obvious that as you get higher in CW speed the need for accuracy in sending code becomes more important. And obviously very few hams can use a hand key and send correctly formed and correctly spaced Morse letters at speeds exceeding about 40 wpm. Thus the vast majority of us use PC programs and keyboards for talking with each other using CW. When operating at higher speeds in the non-QRQ mode, the K3 starts sending choppy characters above about 35 wpm. In the QRQ mode, as Toby stated, the K3 loses some useful functions such as RIT, XIT, split, etc., however it will produce (on my K3) correctly formed CW characters up to about 94 wpm. This subject has been discussed on this reflector for the past 3 years and the Elecraft response has been 'we are working on it'. However those of us who would love to have the QRQ capability without the loss of any useful functions, now pretty much understand that it is not going to happen, thus Toby's and my conclusion that it is not a worthwhile subject for discussion any longer. 73, Tom - W4BQF -----Original Message----- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Phil Hystad Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2014 11:35 AM To: Stephen Prior Cc: Elecraft Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Side Effects of QRQ On The K3 Hopefully I will find some time to do more experiments this afternoon (maybe not, it will be a sunny day) but sending at 30 wpm is always error prone for me and it takes more effort that is not that comfortable. I too am best in the 20 to 25 zone. I think my error rate goes up substantially above about 28 wpm and also when the speed is dropped below about 16 wpm. Going slower also throws my timing way off. I use a Begali Magnetic Classic paddle and I love it. I have a Bencher for the pickup truck mobile and portable ops with KX3. 73, phil, K7PEH On Apr 13, 2014, at 7:53 AM, Stephen Prior <eastbrantw...@gmail.com> wrote: > I just tried sending a string of V's at 30 wpm. Normally my maximum > comfortable sending level is between 20 and 25wpm, so this is > certainly out of my comfort zone. I am using a Begali Expedition and iambic mode B. > With QRQ off I was about 75% accurate in my sending of strings of V's, > with QRQ on, it was nearer 90%. I'm just listening to the sidetone. > That was with the delay set to zero. > > With the delay at 0.06 I cannot see any difference between accuracy of > sending with QRQ on or off, again at the 30wpm level. > > I must concur with previous comments that I have found the K3 to be a > wonderful rig to use on CW, but I'm no racer, and never will be! > > 73 Stephen G4SJP > > K3 #980 > > > > > On 13 April 2014 15:34, Phil Hystad <phys...@mac.com> wrote: > >> Which brings another question --- just when should the QRQ be >> enabled. I have sent at 30 wpm and that is about the limit of my >> sending speed and all mistakes are my fault -- but I have never >> noticed anything choppy or unusual and I have never invoked QRQ. >> Reason for not invoking QRQ is that I didn't think I needed it and I >> thought QRQ was meant for something faster than 30 wpm. >> >> Question: is this something you hear on the side-tone monitor? Is >> it the same as sent? >> >> 73, phil, K7PEH >> >> >> On Apr 13, 2014, at 7:03 AM, Toby Pennington <w4c...@centurylink.net> >> wrote: >> >>> Fred, I was the one who first started this thread. I think perhaps it >> may be not affecting that many people, as there was not much support >> on here about the QRQ deficiencies. I have been running QRQ at >> around 30 wpm, >> because IF I don't, I will notice some choppiness in the sent CW. If >> you operate the rig at speeds greater than 30wpm, then you will >> notice the choppiness in the cw that is being sent. ( without the QRQ >> turned on..) When QRQ is ENGAGED, you lose the use of the RIT, >> Shift, Hi cut and Lo Cut. >>> >>> It appears as though nothing has been done to improve on this >>> situation >> by Elecraft, as they would would have chimed in with a comment about >> the QRQ issue. I believe it is their intention to leave the feature >> as it is and not address anything more concerning it. >>> >>> So, this will be my last post about an issue which I think needs to >>> be >> worked on further. >>> >>> I wish all a Blessed Easter and Passover this coming week! Toby K4NH >>> >>> >>> On 4/13/2014 2:46 AM, Vic Rosenthal K2VCO wrote: >>>> Fred, >>>> >>>> I am sorry if you took my remarks personally. I didn't intend to be >> 'correct' at anyone's expense. But this is a real issue. >>>> >>>> You said "the odds that you'd ever encounter and notice its effects >>>> are >> vanishingly small unless you are a 60+ WPM full QSK operator." That >> is simply not the case: the problem starts showing up around 35 wpm, >> in either full or semi-QSK. >>>> >>>> The only ways to mitigate it are to use QRQ mode or to use manual >>>> PTT >> rather than any form of QSK. >>>> >>>> If the fellow who started the thread never operates CW over 30 wpm, >>>> or >> if he gets used to the limitations of QRQ mode (as I have) or if he >> uses a foot switch, then, yes, he will not notice the problem. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 4/12/2014 8:39 PM, Fred Jensen wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I would normally top-post but hard in this case ... >>>>> >>>>> On 4/12/2014 7:48 PM, Vic Rosenthal K2VCO wrote: >>>>>> I don't agree. With ORQ off, once you exceed about 35 wpm it is >>>>>> not >> OK >>>>>> with TX DELAY at 8 ms either. I'm not a perfectionist, it sounds >> awful. >>>>> >>>>> Not sure what you don't agree with. I said I almost never send >>>>> above 35, and that's N1MM. I rarely paddle above 25, hand >>>>> dexterity issues caused by a poor choice of Dad. [for those who >>>>> don't get that, I loved my Dad, he was really good to me, he was Danish, and it's genetic. >>>>> Geesh, you never know these days!] >>>>> >>>>>> Brian is correct that it doesn't matter whether you are using the >>>>>> internal keyer or an external paddle or keyboard, as long as you >>>>>> are using either semi- or full QSK. >>>>> >>>>> If I didn't say that, I'm sorry, I know that. I run full QSK all >>>>> the time, with KPA500, N1MM-Winkey or my paddles. And yes, Brian >>>>> is >> correct >>>>> [well, I think, I haven't actually tried it, and I'm not at all >>>>> sure I know what TX DLY is], but that's not the list item I was responding to. >>>>> Somehow, being "correct," even if it doesn't respond the the >>>>> original question has become the current badge. Probably not a >>>>> good trend. >>>>>> >>>>>> Fred, I'm willing to bet that you have your WinKey USB set up to >> control >>>>>> the PTT -- or maybe you have a foot switch. You are not using >>>>>> either semi-QSK or full QSK. That is why you don't have the problem. >>>>> >>>>> How much are you willing to bet? :-)) >>>>>> >>>>>> Try this: make sure you are using either full or semi-QSK. Turn >>>>>> on >> QRQ >>>>>> mode and send some V's at about 40 wpm. It should sound fine. >>>>>> Then >> hit >>>>>> RIT and send a few more. You'll see. >>>>> >>>>> Vic, I can't send V's at 40 WPM with my paddle any more, too many >>>>> accumulated birthdays, could when younger. >>>>> >>>>> So FOTL ["Folks Of The List"] ... how about we get back to basics. >>>>> I was responding to David Cole, who has been moderately active on >>>>> this list recently trying to figure out how to buy a K3 and what >>>>> he wants with it. I don't know David, but his questions all >>>>> smacked of sincerity. I think David is more concerned than he >>>>> needs to be about the K3 he's ordered, probably 99% of us know >>>>> he's going to love it. He gets concerned about some of the >>>>> peripheral threads on this list, all welcome, but we're a diverse >>>>> group and not everything that someone is concerned about is our concern. >>>>> >>>>> Learning how to sort that out takes time and experience, and if >>>>> we're lucky, some advice. David wants a K3, he's done his >>>>> research, but he's still sensitive to peripheral posts on the list >>>>> that suggest he may >> have >>>>> made a wrong decision. How about we all have a little compassion >>>>> for David and all the others like him. This is a hard list to >>>>> follow, especially if you might not be hugely technically knowledgeable. >>>>> >>>>> David, you will really enjoy your K3. Just use it out of the box >>>>> for awhile and get to know it. You'll be able to figure out the >>>>> rest, and you'll always have help here. >>>>> >>>>> 73, >>>>> >>>>> Fred K6DGW >>>>> - Northern California Contest Club >>>>> - CU in the 2014 Cal QSO Party 4-5 Oct 2014 >>>>> - www.cqp.org >>>> >>> >>> ______________________________________________________________ >>> Elecraft mailing list >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this >>> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to >>> phys...@mac.com >> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this >> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to >> eastbrantw...@gmail.com >> > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email > list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to > phys...@mac.com ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to alderm...@windstream.net ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to k...@kq8m.com ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
