On 4.7.2012, at 23.10, Michael Ossipoff wrote: >> But if your independent that you vote for locally doesn't win a district >> seat, s/he might still win an at-large seat in the national list PR >> allocation, because, as I said, there's no reason why an independent >> shouldn't be able to run as a 1-candidate "party". So, if you really want to >> elect hir, then vote for hir in your district STV election, and also in the >> national PR allocation election. We're assuming that s/he's a candidate in >> your district, which is why you can vote for hir in your district STV >> election. > > Here you refer to a separate "national PR allocation election". Is your plan > maybe that the voter casts one ranked vote in the district STV election and > one party vote in the national party election? > > [endquote] > > Yes. It would just be the usual topping-up enhancement, but for STV in the > districts. > > > > You wrote: > > Note that this kind of methods may easily allow such free riding where > parties list some of their strong candidates (that will be certainly elected) > as independent candidates in the districts. This makes the total number of > seats of that party appear smaller that it in reality is. And that may lead > to more top-up seats to this party. > > [endquote] > > Nothing wrong with that. Every party supporter who votes for the > "independent" is one who doesn't vote for the party nationwide. So the > party's national count will be less. > > But what if the "independent" is someone who is popular with people other > than the party's supporters too? Fine. Again, nothing wrong with that. It's > fair and right that s/he gets that other support. The party isn't being > unfairly helped. Hir extra nonparty support counts for hir as an independent, > and not for that party, because s/he appeals to people other than party > supporters. > > Mike Ossipoff
I didn't understand yet fully how the voter can vote. Is it possible to vote A>B>C and (separately) give the national party vote to party P? (where A is the "independent" of party P) If this is possible, and party P supporters vote this way, and many "independents" of party P will be elected, then party P is likely to get many representatives that are "independent", and the number of its "non-independent" representatives is smaller that its proportional share (that is derived from the national party votes), and therefore party P will get some extra seats in the top-up process. Party P will thus get its proportional share of the seats + several "independents" (that the method does not conseder to be party P representatives, although in practice they are). That would mean that the method is vulnerable to running some candidates (likely winners) as "independents" to get more seats. Juho
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