So, if TDD is so good and GLib.Test is so bad or incomplete, why not to extend it in something like Granite.Test? would be that possible? useful? hard?
2013/9/3 Alex Lourie <djay...@gmail.com>: > I believe that this has been discussed quite thoroughly already. For now, > TDD as a development philosophy is not really appropriate for the eOS > development. That is not a direct result of tools missing for unittesting, > but again, a development process decision. > > That said, I think that testing is important for elementary, and we are > going to try and look for some automation testing. I will post my findings > shortly about that. > > > On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 3:38 PM, Daniele S. <oppifjel...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> I do understand your point, and I agree with that. But what I want to >> discuss is not if the TDD is generally a good approach ( hint. it is ) >> but if it's the right approach for a community driven project like >> elementaryOS. >> >> about this statement: >> >> "So if you can test something in a language (if its build in or not) you >> can run do TDD." >> >> You should also consider the effort ( and the cost ). When using a >> programming language that doesn't offer unit test facilities applying TDD >> may be tedious and require lots of effort ( like writing your own test suite >> engine ). >> >> ( as background, I'm used to agile methods, at work we use SCRUM and PRTI, >> we are introducing TDD but at a slow rate ) >> >> BR, >> >> Daniele >> >> >> 2013/9/3 Michael Lazarski <mich...@lazarski.me> >>> >>> Hello, >>> >>> TDD isn't a Technic its a mindset or a philosophy. >>> >>> It came from the Agile manifesto http://agilemanifesto.org/ . >>> >>> So if you can test something in a language (if its build in or not) you >>> can run do TDD. >>> >>> Often young developers don't see the need for writing test and even >>> experienced hackers don't do. >>> >>> How often where you hunting a bug and you had to log stuff to hunt the >>> bug? >>> >>> Or how often you see code and you go WTF? >>> >>> Here come test in handy. Now the young padawan may ask why? >>> >>> IF a test is good written you don't need to log stuff because when you >>> break something the test will tell you what and where. >>> >>> Now the young padawan says: But should't I write good code instead? >>> >>> Yes, but the god like programmer is a Myth and if you think your a good >>> hacker your probably a very bad one! << Facts ! >>> >>> But how test can make me faster understand someones code? >>> >>> Simple: People how have Higher Mathematics in School/College/University >>> probably have seen mathematical proofs. >>> >>> Most students think that Teachers do that to annoy the shit out of you >>> but this is just wrong and you probably very bad at Mathematics too... >>> >>> In Mathematical proofs like in test we can see the essence of what the >>> hacker wanted to do. >>> >>> By looking at what he tested and how we can understand how things works >>> and how the shouldn't. >>> >>> >>> SO you can not test and the code must be rewritten a lot like in >>> contractor. maybe not today or maybe not in 1 or 2 months but at some point >>> it will happen and if the guy how wrote the shitty code is not there anymore >>> you will prey for test and a documentation of the code. >>> >>> OH and when people say: look at the source and you will understand it. >>> they are pretty dumb too... >>> >>> Hacking is Art! If I look at the Mona Lisa and someone else will do we >>> maybe see the same thing but think very different! >>> >>> So don't be dumb! Test and Document if you have the workflow right it >>> will take not more then 10 minutes of a work hour but it will save letter >>> tons and tons of work hours! >>> >>> >>> Greetings lampe2 >>> >>> Gruß Michael Lazarski >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> life simply so other people can simply life! >>> Inspired by: https://vimeo.com/17576843 >>> >>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- >>> Von: Daniele S. <oppifjel...@gmail.com> >>> Gesendet: Die 3 September 2013 13:40 >>> An: elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net >>> Betreff: [Elementary-dev-community] about TDD (Test Driven Development) >>> >>> >>> I read some threads focusing on TDD, so I wanted to create one where we >>> can continue that conversation without being offtopic. >>> >>> I'd say my two cent about TDD and elementary os development. >>> In my opinion our current environment is obstile to TDD for serveral >>> reason: >>> >>> 1. Vala doesn't support TDD out of the box ( other languages do: >>> http://cobra-language.com/ ) >>> 2. GLib.Test is a unit test facility that is available to Vala >>> applications, however it's not as advanced as CppUnit, NUnit and equivalent >>> 3. TDD is great for libraries and backends, not so much for GUI >>> applications and Database driven applications. >>> 4. TDD needs lots of fakes and mocks to be written, and that could be >>> very time expensive ( and tedious sometimes ) >>> >>> Some references to Unit testing on vala apps: >>> http://valadoc.org/#!api=glib-2.0/GLib.Test >>> http://esite.ch/2012/06/26/writing-tests-for-vala/ >>> >>> feel free to comment >>> >>> BR, >>> >>> Daniele "OpenNingia" Simonetti >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community >>> >>> Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net >>> >>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community >>> >>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community >>> Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net >>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community >>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>> >> >> >> -- >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community >> Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community >> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >> > > > > -- > Alex Lourie > > -- > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community > Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
