> > TodoMVC in Elm is 21kb (minified & gzip) ;)
Oh, great to hear that :) Is that using Closure Compiler? I'd like to know if there are some place to see those numbers. It may be helpful to make decisions. 2016-07-12 15:46 GMT+09:00 Peter Damoc <pda...@gmail.com>: > TodoMVC in Elm is 21kb (minified & gzip) ;) > > On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 9:29 AM, Yosuke Torii <jinjor...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Sorry, please let me adjust my previous comment. >> >> I said React+Elm is too large, but now I found it's NOT so large as I >> thought. >> (Of course not as small as lightweight libraries yet) >> >> I just saw the number at TodoMVC. >> >> elm.js: 69.7 KB gziped >> (including all user code) >> >> react-with-addons.js: 174 KB gziped >> >> jquery.js: 83.9 KB gziped >> >> I'm surprised the fact Elm is even smaller than jQuery. >> It means React+Elm is smaller than React+jQuery. >> Considering it's temporary to use them together, this number is not too >> bad, I think. >> >> >> 2016-07-11 3:37 GMT+09:00 Richard Feldman <richard.t.feld...@gmail.com>: >> >>> It's all good. :) >>> >>> This stuff is complicated! >>> >>> On Sun, Jul 10, 2016, 11:19 AM Peter Damoc <pda...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Richard, >>>> >>>> Thank you for taking the time to write this considerate answer. >>>> >>>> I apologize for the post I wrote yesterday. >>>> I was in a very very dark place after a night plagued by insomnia at >>>> the end of an extremely stressful week where I could not get anything done. >>>> >>>> Fear is the path to the dark side... and I think I let fear take over. >>>> >>>> Anyway, it is fascinating to see that such a seemingly simple topic has >>>> the brightest minds in the world still looking for an answer. >>>> >>>> I did not knew that the situation is this complicated. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 8:54 PM, Richard Feldman < >>>> richard.t.feld...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Regarding the user form, you said that what I asked is trivial in >>>>>> Elm. >>>>>> Do you have some kind of sample code that you can share or, if you >>>>>> would be so kind, could you post some sample repository that does that? >>>>>> >>>>> I would *LOVE* to be proven wrong about that. I would love to see >>>>>> some simple Elm code that outputs a form that looks like it came from >>>>>> 2016 >>>>>> and go "oops, my bad, sorry for wasting everyone's time". >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sure - I even wrote a blog post >>>>> <http://tech.noredink.com/post/129641182738/building-a-live-validated-signup-form-in-elm> >>>>> about >>>>> it. :) >>>>> >>>>> That post includes examples in the form of SignupForm.elm >>>>> <https://gist.github.com/rtfeldman/ba60ad491cc6b58fe2cc4ca78f5a4580> >>>>> and the styles that go with it >>>>> <https://gist.github.com/rtfeldman/4ec263490ba9a1618b59#file-example-html-L7-L16>. >>>>> I >>>>> didn't bother inline the styles into Elm, but obviously that's a >>>>> copy/paste >>>>> and find/replace job. >>>>> >>>>> All of Graphics.Input was dropped >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Ah, I did not know that! My mistake. You're right, Janis. >>>>> >>>>> Regarding elm-mdl. I am well aware of the release of 6.0.0. I was not >>>>>> arguing that people are not still fighting. >>>>>> What I said was that "*they were explicitly or implicitly dismissed"* >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>> If you want me to be more explicit, I was thinking about the >>>>>> discussions around boilerplate that prompted elm-parts, the difficulties >>>>>> around geometry that prompted debois/elm-dom. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Facebook released React with a built-in, dead-easy way to do reusable >>>>> stateful components: each component has its own local mutable state. >>>>> >>>>> However, they at Facebook weren't satisfied with how this UX scaled, >>>>> so they also released Flux as a more scalable way to manage state. >>>>> >>>>> Many people weren't happy with Flux, though, so they started looking >>>>> elsewhere, for example to ClojureScript, leading to Omniscient.js >>>>> <https://github.com/omniscientjs/omniscient> based on David Nolen's >>>>> cursor-based state management model for Om >>>>> <https://github.com/omcljs/om>. >>>>> >>>>> David Nolen himself ended up moving away from that with Om Next >>>>> <https://github.com/omcljs/om/wiki/Quick-Start-(om.next)>, which >>>>> abandoned cursors in favor of a custom state management system based on >>>>> Relay, Falcor, and Datomic. Obviously not everyone agrees with him; >>>>> Omniscient.js is still under active development. Its last commit is 2 days >>>>> ago. >>>>> >>>>> Others looked to Elm, like Dan Abramov, who created Redux >>>>> <https://github.com/reactjs/redux>. It's very popular in the React >>>>> world, although since Facebook hired Dan, he's been working on ways to >>>>> make >>>>> React not need it anymore. That seems likely to result in the release of a >>>>> new way to do things <https://xkcd.com/927/>, whenever whatever it is >>>>> gets released. >>>>> >>>>> Others thought Redux was too heavyweight and trying to do too much at >>>>> once, which has led to Choo >>>>> <https://github.com/yoshuawuyts/choo#concepts>, a self-described >>>>> <https://github.com/yoshuawuyts/choo#hey-doesnt-this-look-a-lot-like-elm> >>>>> adaptation of Elm 0.17's architecture in JS. >>>>> >>>>> I've spent hours discussing these things with Jafar Husain at Netflix, >>>>> who thinks Observables are the answer. See for example rx-react >>>>> <https://github.com/fdecampredon/rx-react> or Andre Staltz's popular >>>>> Cycle.js <http://cycle.js.org/>. >>>>> >>>>> This is to say nothing of how Angular manages state. Or Ember. Or >>>>> Aurelia. Or Vue. >>>>> >>>>> My point is this: >>>>> >>>>> *Every single community that's involved in making browser-based UIs is >>>>> flooded with conflicting viewpoints on how reusable stateful components >>>>> should be done.* >>>>> >>>>> There is not some glaringly obvious answer that will make everyone >>>>> happy. It does not exist. >>>>> >>>>> History strongly suggests that in this area,* making one group of >>>>> people happy makes others unhappy.* >>>>> >>>>> I was on a Skype call several months ago where Søren and Evan had an >>>>> extended discussion about his experiences developing elm-mdl. The fact >>>>> that >>>>> Evan did not end up doing things the way you think he should is not a >>>>> reflection of Evan being dismissive of Søren's experience, it's that >>>>> *reusable >>>>> stateful components are a minefield of tradeoffs*. >>>>> >>>>> Personally I think when one finds oneself in a minefield, it is wise >>>>> to tread carefully. :) >>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>> >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Elm Discuss" group. >>>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to elm-discuss+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> >>>> >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> There is NO FATE, we are the creators. >>>> blog: http://damoc.ro/ >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >>>> Google Groups "Elm Discuss" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/elm-discuss/gVY5DmZOR9s/unsubscribe. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>>> elm-discuss+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >>> Google Groups "Elm Discuss" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/elm-discuss/gVY5DmZOR9s/unsubscribe. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>> elm-discuss+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Elm Discuss" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to elm-discuss+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > > -- > There is NO FATE, we are the creators. > blog: http://damoc.ro/ > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups "Elm Discuss" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/elm-discuss/gVY5DmZOR9s/unsubscribe. > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > elm-discuss+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Elm Discuss" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to elm-discuss+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
