Dear all,

Here are the meetup notes:

TL;DR: repeating tasks on weekdays; autocompleting citations with
citar, vertico, and orderless; writing derived export backend;
LSP in src blocks; Org mode and various Lisps; Org mode & canvas
patch; LaTeX preview patch; clocking time; org-cycle-separator-lines;
Solar eclipse; org-id performance; LLM-generated code in Org;
switch-to-prev-buffer-skip-regexp; LLMs in Emacs and Org (yet again);
EmacsConf 2026 submissions; casual-org, transient support;
Org parser in Bison.

- As usual, we started from Emacs News
  https://sachachua.com/blog/2026/08/2026-08-10-emacs-news/

- Christer Enfors asked about repeating tasks just on weekdays
  - This is a FAQ question
    
https://orgmode.org/worg/org-faq/?q=week#how-can-i-set-an-event-to-occur-every-day-except-saturday-and-sunday
    The FAQ answer is using diary sexp timestamps
  - Another popular approach is using ~org-clone-subtree-with-time-shift~
  - Or one can just drop multiple timestamps into a task
    #+begin_src org
     ,* NEXT A task
     <2026-08-19 Wed +1w>
     <2026-08-20 Thu +1w>
     <2026-08-21 Fri +1w>
   #+end_src
  - This is so popular, that we may add a special repeater type one day
  - Jake noted that diary sexp timestamps will not auto-repeat the task,
    which is true. And it is a missing feature I would love to see
    patches for.
    - meanwhile one can use custom ~org-after-todo-state-change-hook~
  - Zororg asked about scheduling OrgMeetup
    I suggest diary sexp timestamp on the meetup page
    : <%%(diary-float t 3 2)>
    but I personally simply put a timestamp like
    : <2026-08-12 Wed 18:00-20:00>

- yaca updated on the question raised during on of the previous
  meetups - autocompleting references in orgmode
  - https://github.com/emacs-citar/citar is helpful
  - but yaca found it even more powerful with
    https://github.com/minad/vertico and
    https://github.com/oantolin/orderless
    - They allow matching by author, title, year, etc. Not just by
      bibtex key.
    - Example setup 
https://git.sr.ht/~yaca/.dotfiles/tree/master/item/emacs/.emacs.d (really 
simple)

- famubu asked about making a derived export backend (from latex)
  - http://tilde.team/~famubu/mcv/mcv.el
  - He aims to modify the latex exporter to export a CV, and
    he wanted to implement a special handling of different headline levels
  - There are multiple ways to create a derived backend, depending
    on how much you want to modify the original exporter behavior
  - The simplest ways involve adding a bunch of filters postprocessing
    the original exporter output of pre-filtering the abstract syntax
    tree
    - See https://orgmode.org/manual/Advanced-Export-Configuration.html
    - Another good resource is
      https://orgmode.org/worg/dev/org-export-reference.html and
      https://orgmode.org/worg/exporters/ page itself
    - I suggested ~org-export-filter-parse-tree-functions~ as
      it can be easily used to transform specific headings as needed
  - More complex logic can be implemented using custom transcoders
    (functions that transform specific Org syntax elements into LaTeX
    output)
    - I recommend starting from a simple built-in derived backends like
      ox-komma-letter. It can be used as a reference

- yaca asked about eglot in src blocks
  - Zororg shared a hack to make it work that tangles
    src blocks to files, and sets buffer-file-name in
    src edit buffer
    https://github.com/joaotavora/eglot/issues/216#issuecomment-1052931508
    - This is just hack though. It will not work when
      src is spread over multiple src blocks, for example
  - Karthik proposed something a bit more elaborate a few years ago,
    but it was still not ideal because of complications like noweb
    references
    https://list.orgmode.org/orgmode/[email protected]/
  - Unfortunately, eglot support is tricky as LSP server fundamentally
    work with files

- Zororg shared a blog article about different Lisps
  https://scotto.me/blog/2026-07-17-which-lisp/#user-content-fn-1
  - It is a bit off-topic, but just for fun, I tried to find linkage
    for each of the lisps to Org mode
  - Common Lisp :: there is Org mode implementation for
    LEM editor (inspired by Emacs, written on Common Lisp)
    https://github.com/lem-project/lem
    - Org mode plugin: https://github.com/mahmoodsh36/organ-mode
  - Clojure :: Our bug tracker https://tracker.orgmode.org/
    is written on Clojure. See https://codeberg.org/bzg/bone
    Also, an Org parser (by Bastien): https://codeberg.org/bzg/organ
  - Racket :: alas, no idea where Racket is used. I only learned
    Racket a bit as a part of some introductory programming course.

- Zororg asked whether something brand new will become possible
  after Canvas patch is merged to Emacs (spoiler: it has been merged by
  the time I am writing this)
  https://mathstodon.xyz/@divyaranjan/117064409693645021
  - Canvas patch is a new low-level API that allows direct manipulation
    with image objects by pixel. It can directly talk to Emacs modules
    and connect to rendering libraries that can utilize hardware acceleration
  - So, videos become possible, playing Doom, and whatnot
  - For Org, the most immediate potentially useful thing is
    video previews - just like image previews we might be able to
    preview videos. Of course, one would still need to implement
    some code that will play videos. The Canvas patch itself is just
    pixel manipulation with minimal primitives on top
  - Otherwise, I very much see it as a potential replacement of
    defunct xwidget support that may open the door to Jupyter notebook-like
    interactive UI
    - Think of
      #+begin_src gnuplot :results file :file test.png :dir 'attach
      plot exp(x**0.5)
      #+end_src
      but outputting a plot that you can interact with, zoom in/out,
      change scale, etc.

- dmgerman asked about merging LaTeX preview
  - It is very close to merging onto main
    - The key blocker now is free time for Karthik to address the final comments
  - The discussion is in 
https://list.orgmode.org/orgmode/[email protected]/

- famubu asked about clocking time in Org
  - I personally clock all my computer time.
    Then, I use a series of clocktables with tag matcher
    to categorize time into work/leisure/etc. The categories
    are collected weekly, allowing me to understand how much
    time I spend for work vs Org mode vs life.
  - Examples:
    : #+BEGIN: clocktable :scope agenda :maxlevel 4 :tstart "<-1w>" :fileskip0 t
    : #+BEGIN: clocktable :scope agenda :maxlevel 5 :tstart "<-1w>" :match 
"+work" :fileskip0 t
    : ...
    | Week       | Chk  | Clocked/week |  Work | Org maintenance | Study | 
Leisure |  Misc | Note |
    
|------------+------+--------------+-------+-----------------+-------+---------+-------+------|
    | 2026/06/28 | pass |        64:23 | 38:27 |            4:15 |  3:36 |    
4:32 | 13:33 |      |
    | 2026/08/02 | pass |        69:34 | 35:16 |           18:47 |  5:14 |    
1:03 |  9:14 |      |
  - There is also https://github.com/rksm/clj-org-analyzer/
    that reads Org clock data and renders web page with a summary

- Zororg commented that text UI in Emacs is not very good
  - It turned out that he dislikes when headings collapse
    to single lines without spaces
  - By default, Org mode leaves extra spaces between folded
    headings when a heading content ends with two blank lines
    - But I personally disable this feature with
      : (setq org-cycle-separator-lines 0)
    - To each their own :)
  - Other ways to "beautify" are numerous packages. For example,
    https://github.com/minad/org-modern

- Zororg asked about ORG-NEWS file in installed Org
  - AFAIK, ORG-NEWS does get installed alongside with Emacs
  - However, the menu item indeed points to our website

- At this point, we had a bit of de-crowding, with some people
  leaving to enjoy the Solar eclipse

- dmgerman asked about the problem he reported in
  https://list.orgmode.org/orgmode/[email protected]/
  - He has a huge number of Org files (org-roam user) and org-id
    takes a while to update id locations
  - Normally, org-id tries to not re-scan the files if none of them
    changes
  - However, with many files, it is often the case when a few files do
    change
  - We currently do not have an optimization that maintains per-file
    cache, although there is an incomplete patch idea from Christopher
    https://orgmode.org/list/[email protected]

- dmgerman also asked if LLMs-generated code is allowed
  - It is currently not allowed, as we follow interim GNU policy
    that is in place until they finish consulting with lawyers
    on the interaction between GPL and LLM-generated code
  - See https://orgmode.org/worg/org-contribute.html#llm

- famubu asked a general Emacs question about C-x b (switch-to-buffer)
  When he has the same buffer in 2 splits in the same window, doing
  C-x b will switch to a different buffer with buffers sorted by recency.
  However, repeating C-x b will not offer the buffer we just switched to,
  presumably because it filters it out because the buffer is already shown
  in another window
  - I looked into the code, but completion for reading buffers is buried
    somewhere deep into code indirections, so I could not easily see
    how to change the defaults.
  - Zororg suggested using =M-x switch-to-prev-buffer= instead
    - It can be configured with ~switch-to-prev-buffer-skip~
    - I personally use =skip-buffers-previous-buffer= which is a
      third-party package lying around inside my Git folder
      - My records show that I stole it from =/u/nv-elisp=
        
https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/b058f8/weekly_tipstricketc_thread/eidho7q/
    - Nowadays, there is also ~switch-to-prev-buffer-skip-regexp~, which I 
should probably
      use instead of the old hacky code

- As it often goes, the topic of LLMs was raised
  - I have been playing with Elisp code generation with LLMs for a while now,
    with some contributions to gptel (WIP and merged)
  - My early attempt was dealing with oauth flow where I tasked LLM with
    using a specific existing library to connect to google docs and
    fetch a document into a dynamic block inside Org
    - The initial version worked, but LLM made rather questionable
      design decisions about what to fetch, so I rewrote things a bit myself
    - Over time, I keep updating that code myself (without LLM)
    - 
https://github.com/yantar92/emacs-config/blob/master/config.org#google-docs-integration
  - Nowadays, I have a number of handy integrations that make LLMs
    know the right context without me having to specify every detail
    in the prompt
    - When I am clocked into a task, the task is supplied into LLM
      context, alongside with the description of the containing
      project, so that it has an idea what I am doing
      
https://github.com/yantar92/emacs-config/blob/master/config.org#system-prompt
    - I have a setup for patch reviews, that is greatly helping
      me to catch things I miss during manual review (I usually review
      manually first, followed by LLM review that exposes more things)
      
https://github.com/yantar92/emacs-config/blob/master/config.org#patch-review-for-org-mode
      - The setup automatically detects the patch from magit diff or
        notmuch buffer (from email).
    - I have local memory MCT server, allowing to keep everything locally
  - Christer Enfors suggested that it is more effective to use LLMs
    for learning rather than writing code instead of you
    - There is some truth to it, although learning something new with
      LLMs require discipline. You cannot just ask LLM answer every
      question or detail (over-reliance) - it can hurt learning. On
      the other hand, LLMs can improve learning when you already have
      experience and simply try to learn more deeper
      [[http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.caeai.2025.100361]] (or viral
      [[https://arxiv.org/abs/2506.08872]] that focuses on bad aspects but
      also shows improvements in learn yourself -> learn more with LLM)
  - Zororg commented that he does not use gptel because he thinks that
    it does not support Claude. Well... gptel does support Claude.
    https://github.com/karthink/gptel/#anthropic-claude (but yes, you
    need an API key)
    - Recently, gptel also supports oauth (for ChatGPT though), which
      allow using without API key.
    - https://github.com/xenodium/agent-shell can work with Claude
      - Although, agent-shell is a wrapper on top; it uses ACP
      - dmgerman simply runs Claude in kitty and tracks sessions
        inside Emacs
    - Note that gptel is not an agent, like ECA or other tools on
      top of LLMs
    - I myself built an agent in Elisp, on top of gptel, based on
      https://github.com/kmontag/macher/, but with my custom
      tools (including sandbox, web search, and url fetching), skills,
      and MCP servers
      - I prefer this way because I am not locked to specific LLM and
        specific proprietary browser/agent implementation, and keep
        options to use local LLMs (which I gradually introduce into my
        workflows)
      - dmgerman commented that one of the motivations of 
https://github.com/dmgerman/browser-gt was exporting
        ChatGPT chat into Org
        - yes, it is not easy; you can't export ChatGPT chat; there is no such 
feature
        - The only escape path is asking it to write actual docs, but
          that's usually just a summary. You can't save everything.
      - dmgerman also noted that Claude harness saves chat history
        locally (.jsonl file), althouh it erases it after 30
        days. That's somewhat better than browser lock-in in
        ChatGPT/Gemini, but, as it goes with closed source tools, may
        change any moment.
  - We also talked about who uses which LLMs
    - The usual suspects - Gemini, DeepSeek, Claude
    - new-ish thing was a comment from zaimon about the new DeepSeek
      version (which I use - DeepSeek API automatically uses the
      latest model)
    - zaimon uses nanogpt, which provides access to all providers
      - I guess yet another LLM router service
  - dmgerman connects LLM to his org-roam buffers, summarizing
    sessions as Org headings (full traces are not very useful for /human/
    consumption - they are too long to comprehend)
    - Christer Enfors commented that summarization is sometimes getting
      ridiculous these days with people writing emails with LLMs and
      the people receiving those emails using other LLMs to summarize
      all that. Yikes!
      - (Although it is sometimes useful to summarize one of those 100+ email
        threads on emacs-devel, or even Org mailing list)
    - Some people store much more in Org; not just LLM, but SMS, emails,
      reddit comments, and whatnot. https://github.com/novoid/Memacs
      - Zororg noted that summarization is promising to keep up
        with RSS
        - Yeah - https://folo.is/
  - Christer Enfors asked about integrating Gemini with Emacs
    - https://eca.dev/config/models/#google--gemini
      - https://github.com/editor-code-assistant/eca (it is in
        Clojure + Emacs support)
    - https://github.com/karthink/gptel/#gemini

- Zororg asked if there are already proposals related to Org
  for EmacsConf 2026
  - (The meetup was [checking calendar...] over a month before the deadline)
  - Is there someone, anyone who submits proposals so early?? For any 
conference. Ever. At least, it should be one week before the deadline
    - Christer Enfors notes that one week it too early "*laughs in ADHD*"
  - Many conferences *always* extend the deadline for submissions.
  - Some even increase the fees and set *two deadlines*
  - I was thinking to give a talk (see
    https://fosstodon.org/@yantar92/117019986030510194)
  - Although, I will need to attend another conference soon (in September, 
around submission deadline for EmacsConf [nervous laugh]).
    (https://www.european-mrs.com/meetings/2026-fall-meeting-exhibit
    if anyone is curious; that's for my actual work)
  - kickingvegas also plans to give a talk about
    one of his packages - https://github.com/kickingvegas/anju
    
- dmgerman asked kickingvegas if https://github.com/kickingvegas/casual
  supports Org
  - It does: https://github.com/kickingvegas/casual/blob/main/lisp/casual-org.el
  - We also have a patch that adds (initial) support of transient menus to Org
    - https://list.orgmode.org/orgmode/[email protected]/
    - The patch is now with me; I need to finalize and push it
      - Although it will take time, I found some issues I need to
        address there first

- Zororg asked if me (Org maintainer) is russian
  He drew analogy from my nickname (yantar92) and https://github.com/YaLTeR/ 
(the author of niriWM compositor)
  - Certainly, I am not. I have never been to Russia
  - I live in Poland now, but I am Ukrainian
  - (I generally live and work in multiple countries over the last decade)

- Morgan is playing with Bison to write an Org mode parser (potentially
  as Emacs module)
  - In general, Elisp implementation will remain canonical to not inflate
    entry barrier to syntax development
  - More importantly, I am skeptical about Bison (and LR/GLR grammars in 
general) being able to handle Org mode syntax
    - One can definite parse a subset of Org, but some parts
      are too dynamic: todo keywords change syntax in the buffer,
      sub/superscript option also can; special blocks need to
      match dynamically; lists require tracking indentation;
      etc
    - Org mode grammar is definitely not context-free
    - One concrete example is organice that tries with ENBF, and fails
      https://github.com/200ok-ch/org-parser/issues/12
  - I have more hopes about using something like 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parsing_expression_grammar
    (peg.el is built-in)

:chat:
[17:53] yantar92 is now the presenter
[17:56] [yaca : VIEWER]: hello
[17:58] [yantar92 : MODERATOR]: The latest EmacsNews: 
https://sachachua.com/blog/2026/08/2026-08-10-emacs-news/
[18:01] [artsi0m : VIEWER]: Hi there
[18:01] [Christer Enfors : VIEWER]: Hello everyone
[18:01] [Juha Autero : VIEWER]: hello
[18:01] [zaimon : VIEWER]: wow the art looks cool
[18:02] [Christer Enfors : VIEWER]: I have a quick question: Can you make a 
task repeat on weekdays only?
[18:04] [Jake : VIEWER]: the diary functions mean that the task won't be 
repeated, right?
[18:04] [Christer Enfors : VIEWER]: Alright, thanks!
[18:04] [Jake : VIEWER]: I mean, if you set the task to done with org-todo, 
it'll be closed.
[18:05] [yaca : VIEWER]: I just wanted to mention that a time ago I was here 
asking for help autocompleting the references insert in orgmode, at the end we 
installed `citar` package which was really helpful but the ui was not very 
responsive. lately I expanded the usefulness of citar by also installing 
`marginalia`, `vertico` and `orderless`. If anybody has been in this situation 
my dotfiles are at 
https://git.sr.ht/~yaca/.dotfiles/tree/master/item/emacs/.emacs.d
[18:05] [Jake : VIEWER]: What happens if you mark the task as one of the done 
keywords, though?
[18:06] [Jake : VIEWER]: yeah
[18:07] [Jake : VIEWER]: you already answered that question
[18:09] [Zororg : VIEWER]: for org meetup, does anyone use anything other than 
diary format?

: <%%(diary-float t 3 2)19:40>

the method on this is, I cannot seem to make current as "Done" if I do its 
closed for all occurence
[18:09] [yaca : VIEWER]: yeah without those apps citar will only autocomplete 
the keys of citations, but now I can search by author, year, title, etc
[18:10] [famubu : VIEWER]: I'm trying to make a derived export backend for org. 
Derived from latex.
I am trying to organize the latex using org headers, but wihtout those headers 
being used for the export.

http://tilde.team/~famubu/mcv/mcv.el

For moderncv, to make CVs, actually.
[18:11] [Zororg : VIEWER]: oh lol thats decent,, since its once a month 
[18:12] [Jake : VIEWER]: You could probably hack together a todo state change 
hook to immediately re-open tasks that have sexp timestamps after closing them.
[18:12] [Jake : VIEWER]: @zororg
[18:14] [Zororg : VIEWER]: did the second dev meetup happened?

I download first one, will download second also if so to watch later
[18:14] [Zororg : VIEWER]: then third one?
[18:15] [Zororg : VIEWER]: got it. Thanks
[18:16] famubu is now the presenter, set by yantar92
[18:25] [yantar92 : MODERATOR]: 
https://orgmode.org/worg/dev/org-export-reference.html
[18:27] [yantar92 : MODERATOR]: ox-komma-letter
[18:28] yantar92 is now the presenter, set by yantar92
[18:30] [yaca : VIEWER]: I have a question which just arised
[18:30] [Zororg : VIEWER]: 
https://scotto.me/blog/2026-07-17-which-lisp/#user-content-fn-1

just a nice article on lisp
[18:30] [yaca : VIEWER]: why or how can i get eglot to work when I'm witihinin 
a sourceblock?
[18:31] [Zororg : VIEWER]: there is a hack
[18:31] [famubu : VIEWER]: a temp file?
[18:31] [Zororg : VIEWER]: 
https://github.com/joaotavora/eglot/issues/216#issuecomment-1052931508
[18:32] [yaca : VIEWER]: thanks I'll look into it
[18:34] [yantar92 : MODERATOR]: 
https://list.orgmode.org/orgmode/87o70a7h64.fsf@localhost/
[18:34] [yantar92 : MODERATOR]: implementation of a more complete (bug still 
hack) from Karthink
[18:35] [Zororg : VIEWER]: No, just shared.. 
[18:36] [yantar92 : MODERATOR]: https://codeberg.org/bzg/bone is our bug 
tracker, written on clojure
[18:37] [Zororg : VIEWER]: Any promising leap you can imagine for org mode when 
"Canvas" patch is merged?

https://mathstodon.xyz/@divyaranjan/117064409693645021
[18:37] [yantar92 : MODERATOR]: https://github.com/mahmoodsh36/organ-mode
[18:38] [yantar92 : MODERATOR]: Org mode variant for LEM (Common Lisp editor 
similar to Emacs)
[18:38] [yantar92 : MODERATOR]: https://codeberg.org/bzg/organ
[18:38] [yantar92 : MODERATOR]: parser for Org on clojure
[18:42] [Zororg : VIEWER]: ah cool.
Canvas can play video i think
[18:45] [dmgerman : VIEWER]: Regarding images, what do you think is going to be 
the future of merging the latex improvements for inline rendering:

https://code.tecosaur.net/tec/org-mode.git
[18:47] [dmgerman : VIEWER]: ok, good to know. thank you. I use org-mode for 
teaching and resizing the latex has become a very important feature when going 
through the org-headings.
[18:47] [yantar92 : MODERATOR]: 
https://list.orgmode.org/orgmode/[email protected]/
[18:47] [Zororg : VIEWER]: gosh.. I always wonder how do you manage with giant 
goals file and this notmuch..

too much text and clutter. I've been spoiled by clean UI with space/paddings
[18:48] [Zororg : VIEWER]: I mean web that shows minimal UI and in organized way
[18:49] [famubu : VIEWER]: Does anyone track time spent doing work in org? Just 
curious.
[18:50] [famubu : VIEWER]: a la taskwarrior
[18:50] [famubu : VIEWER]: Oh yeah.;
[18:50] [famubu : VIEWER]: I guess you org-clock all the time?
[18:51] [Dave Marquardt : VIEWER]: I do org-clock often, and also have org 
tables for the week and daily
[18:51] [famubu : VIEWER]: is there a package to make reports from org clock 
info
[18:52] [famubu : VIEWER]: Like weekly time spent, monthly. compare against 
target 
[18:52] [famubu : VIEWER]: Like yours.
[18:52] [famubu : VIEWER]: But I guess yours is your own
[18:52] [famubu : VIEWER]: yeah
[18:53] [famubu : VIEWER]: Ah.. yeah I tried it once.
[18:53] [famubu : VIEWER]: Is nice.
[18:54] [yantar92 : MODERATOR]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBgvGDOxmUw
[18:54] [yantar92 : MODERATOR]: https://github.com/rksm/clj-org-analyzer/
[18:56] [Zororg : VIEWER]: I just mean, its all text without space when 
collapsed
[18:57] [Zororg : VIEWER]: hehe.. yes. Thanks.
[18:58] [yantar92 : MODERATOR]: (setq org-cycle-separator-lines 1)
[18:58] [yantar92 : MODERATOR]: by default, there is space between collapsed 
headings if you have two blank lines at the end
[18:58] [Zororg : VIEWER]: No i was just astonished by your workflow.
But you've mastered it (no pun here)
[18:58] [yantar92 : MODERATOR]: https://github.com/minad/org-modern
[18:59] [Zororg : VIEWER]: there is no org news in info built inside when 
installing?
[19:00] [Zororg : VIEWER]: ah but i've to go by path 
[19:00] [Zororg : VIEWER]: site-lisp/elpa/org-9.8.7/news
[19:01] [Zororg : VIEWER]: gotcha, for me by nix it was inside source code
[19:05] [Juha Autero : VIEWER]: I have to go and try not to stare at the sun.
[19:07] [dmgerman : VIEWER]: Few weeks ago I submitted a bug related to: 
org-lint-invalid-id-link triggers full
 org-id-update-id-locations scan on every save

I should apologize, I got busy and I didn't reply to you. I'll look into this. 

A question:

if understand correctly, i should not use AI to write the code, is that true?

I will discuss it with you in the mailing list. flycheck has already fixed the 
bug.


[19:09] [yantar92 : MODERATOR]: https://orgmode.org/worg/org-contribute.html#llm
[19:09] [dmgerman : VIEWER]: ok, i'll discuss how to implement with you in the 
mailing list. 
[19:11] [famubu : VIEWER]: When I got the same buffer in 2 splits in the same 
emacs window, when I do C-x b, it doesn't come back to the original buffer. Is 
there a way to avoid this?
[19:11] [dmgerman : VIEWER]: I have been very productive generating modules 
with an LLM (submitted recently to melpa the one I discussed here recently to 
connect the browser with emacs --it is called browsel). I'll be careful with 
the contributions to org though and not use any generated code.
[19:14] [Zororg : VIEWER]: or you can do (M-x previous-buffer) for quick jump
[19:15] [Zororg : VIEWER]: I use EWM, so i've it as S-j and S-k
easy peasy..
[19:18] [famubu : VIEWER]: No previous-buffer doesn't work that way either.
[19:18] [Zororg : VIEWER]: it might be based on recency..

(window-next-buffers)
[19:19] [yaca : VIEWER]: gtg, thank for another good session
[19:19] [yaca : VIEWER]: bye
[19:19] [Zororg : VIEWER]: anyway no more than twice you need to jump prev and 
next..

> twice, go with switch-buffer completions
[19:20] [yantar92 : MODERATOR]: switch-to-prev-buffer-skip
[19:21] [famubu : VIEWER]: I too got to go. Thanks for the help!
[19:22] [dmgerman : VIEWER]: I agree, it depends a lot on the operator
[19:23] [Christer Enfors : VIEWER]: I think the best practice when it comes to 
LLM use for coding is to NOT let it code for you, but instead have it TEACH you 
to code. But it does take some experience to do it effectively, because you 
need to be able to challenge it when it gives you strange advice/teachings.
[19:23] [Christer Enfors : VIEWER]: I've done that a lot with my elisp project 
recently. It has worked well so far. But I'm an experienced developer, just not 
with elisp.
[19:26] [Zororg : VIEWER]: this is really nice
[19:27] [Zororg : VIEWER]: Which model do you use?
I presume you've pay per api usage?

I only have claude code (Pro).. so cannot use gptel or other fancy ones
[19:27] [Zororg : VIEWER]: I tried eca -- but it used more tokens than 
claude-code official TUI tool
[19:28] [dmgerman : VIEWER]: True, you need to pay for the API with gptel. But 
it is not expensive. I pay 5 dollars every many months.
[19:28] [dmgerman : VIEWER]: (i use openAI)
[19:28] [Zororg : VIEWER]: but without api... just by claude pro account
[19:28] [Christer Enfors : VIEWER]: I use Google's Gemini, in Pro (paid) mode. 
Costs around 23€ per month I think.
[19:29] [dmgerman : VIEWER]: retrieving info from the browser's LLM was one of 
the motivations for browsel.
[19:29] [dmgerman : VIEWER]: i can now export a chat into an org file
[19:30] [zaimon : VIEWER]: you can try the new 0731 deepseek models they seem 
good with the limited testing done by me
[19:30] [Zororg : VIEWER]: memory burns tokens rapidly (for session users)
[19:30] [dmgerman : VIEWER]: claude-code saves everything locally. erases by 
default every 30 days if i remmeber correctly.
[19:31] [Zororg : VIEWER]: writes in .jsonl file
[19:31] [dmgerman : VIEWER]: oh, that is a different problem. What I can do now 
is export a session to org.
[19:31] [Zororg : VIEWER]: yep, better to always ask it to write notes or docs..
That helps a bit
[19:32] [dmgerman : VIEWER]: yes, that is my. module. I demo it some time ago.
[19:35] [zaimon : VIEWER]: Oh I use nanogpt.com, for all providers, so did'nt 
know the models get automatically upgraded 😜
[19:35] [zaimon : VIEWER]: yes they have api
[19:36] [Zororg : VIEWER]: for claude, does anyone has emacs setup for it?
[19:36] [Zororg : VIEWER]: been using their TUI tool only mostly
[19:36] [yantar92 : MODERATOR]: https://github.com/xenodium/agent-shell
[19:37] [Zororg : VIEWER]: have you tried eca?
[19:37] [dmgerman : VIEWER]: I find kitty to be a better enviroment to run 
claude, and then use emacs to communicate with kitty (I have a claude sessionsi 
tracker inside emacs)
[19:39] [Zororg : VIEWER]: the thing is llm keeps generating that my brain 
cannot keep up on anything
[19:40] [Zororg : VIEWER]: these llm generate so much, that I cannot comprehend 
nor remeber anything from output...
[19:42] [dmgerman : VIEWER]: I am connecting my org-roam buffers to claude. I 
have a hook in claude that creates an org heading every time I start a session, 
and then from emacs I create "points of interest" that query the user to the 
prompt I want to record and retrieves it from claude sessions storage. then I 
can trim it to save the info. 
[19:43] [Zororg : VIEWER]: yep that makes sense!
[19:44] [Christer Enfors : VIEWER]: People are asking LLMs to compose emails 
for them now, and the receiver asks another LLM to summarize the email the 
first LLM wrote.
[19:45] [Christer Enfors : VIEWER]: Don't give me ideas - I'm beind on the 
org-mode email list...
[19:45] [dmgerman : VIEWER]: currently i have an /end-session command in claude 
code to summarize the claude session and send me to emacs in the same 
org-heading where I can trim it. It has helped me managed storing what I did.
[19:46] [Christer Enfors : VIEWER]: I really need to investigate getting Gemini 
integrated into Emacs...
[19:47] [yantar92 : MODERATOR]: https://github.com/novoid/Memacs
[19:47] [yantar92 : MODERATOR]: put everything, not just llm into emacs - logs, 
sms, rss, etc
[19:48] [Christer Enfors : VIEWER]: By integrating Gemini into Emacs I mean get 
a Gemini interface inside Emacs, so that I'm "chatting" withit from an Emacs 
buffer, without having to switch to the browser window to do it.
[19:48] [Zororg : VIEWER]: ahh. summarizing rss would be good to start for me
[19:48] [yantar92 : MODERATOR]: https://folo.is/ - ai summaries for rss
[19:49] [Zororg : VIEWER]: https://eca.dev/config/models/#google--gemini
[19:49] [Zororg : VIEWER]: try this as well.. should be good
[19:49] [Christer Enfors : VIEWER]: Yep, that's basically what I need. I should 
set that up...
[19:50] [yantar92 : MODERATOR]: https://github.com/karthink/gptel/#gemini
[19:50] [Zororg : VIEWER]: but author is emacs first
[19:51] [Zororg : VIEWER]: i think like LSP they tried to do this before ACP 
came into picture
[19:51] [Zororg : VIEWER]: https://github.com/editor-code-assistant/eca

written in clojure, so emacs first
[19:52] [Zororg : VIEWER]: any emacs conf proposals from org family?
[19:53] [Zororg : VIEWER]: yea if anyone is doing talk
[19:53] [Zororg : VIEWER]: hehehe
[19:53] [Christer Enfors : VIEWER]: One week before deadline? *laughs in ADHD*
[19:54] [Christer Enfors : VIEWER]: Freaks.
[19:54] [Christer Enfors : VIEWER]: Freaks, I say.
[19:54] [Zororg : VIEWER]: many do personal email later deadline as well
[19:54] [Christer Enfors : VIEWER]: Ooooh, you totally should give a talk!
[19:54] [Christer Enfors : VIEWER]: What's the other conference?
[19:55] [Christer Enfors : VIEWER]: Nice!
[19:57] [dmgerman : VIEWER]: thank you for your time. We appreciate it a lot.
[19:57] [kickingvegas : VIEWER]: hi folks!  - I'm considering making a 
presentation on Anju for Emacs Conf
[19:58] [kickingvegas : VIEWER]: there's a lot of Org support in Anju
[19:58] [Zororg : VIEWER]: https://github.com/kickingvegas/anju
[19:58] [dmgerman : VIEWER]: Yes, kickingvegas, your packages are great. We 
need a casual for org
[19:59] [kickingvegas : VIEWER]: dmgerman - there's support for Org in Casual
[19:59] [kickingvegas : VIEWER]: 
https://kickingvegas.github.io/casual/Org-Usage.html
[19:59] [dmgerman : VIEWER]: oh, great. I didn't notice. Thank you.
[19:59] [yantar92 : MODERATOR]: 
https://github.com/kickingvegas/casual/blob/main/lisp/casual-org.el
[20:01] [Zororg : VIEWER]: gtg. Thank you yantar for always making this meetup 
happening and sharing insights
[20:02] [Zororg : VIEWER]: I keep thinking both yantar and Yalter (niriWM) 
author is similar.

https://github.com/YaLTeR/
[20:02] [yantar92 : MODERATOR]: WIP work on transient support in Org: 
https://list.orgmode.org/orgmode/[email protected]/
[20:02] [Zororg : VIEWER]: thats where i thought you were russian, and today i 
got corrected again that you are from poland
[20:03] [Zororg : VIEWER]: they are author of popular wayland compositor -- 
Niri (Scrolling one)
Second best after hyprland if it counts
[20:03] [Zororg : VIEWER]: Ohh Ukraine.... thats more news for me..
[20:03] [Morgan : VIEWER]: I'm in the middle of using flex and bison to write 
an org-mode parser with the eventual goal to create a C emacs module that would 
replace org-element. Mostly just as an exercise to teach myself how to do 
standard parser stuff as I doubt org-mode wants a c module part.
[20:05] [Morgan : VIEWER]: we have talked about this and I've been doing a good 
amount of research but I'm still not convinced org can't be parsed with a CFG
[20:06] [Morgan : VIEWER]: We do have wisent which is an elisp bison 
replacement but we don't seem to have a flex replacement in place
[20:08] [Morgan : VIEWER]: strictly speaking: parsing a block with a hardcoded 
start and stop string (like comment, example, etc) is possible using a regular 
language.  jumping up to a CFG I imagine parsing that structure is possible
[20:09] [Morgan : VIEWER]: trying to rework cedet might be in my future but 
would be very ambitious
[20:10] [Morgan : VIEWER]: I haven't started working on lists but I don't see 
the issue.  maybe I will when I get my hands dirty with it
[20:11] [Morgan : VIEWER]: Still sounds within the realm of a CFG
[20:13] [Morgan : VIEWER]: EBNF is equivilent to CFG
[20:13] [yantar92 : MODERATOR]: https://github.com/200ok-ch/org-parser/issues/12
[20:13] [yantar92 : MODERATOR]: problems with parsing Org with context-free 
grammar
[20:14] [yantar92 : MODERATOR]: 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parsing_expression_grammar
[20:14] [Morgan : VIEWER]: my main thing is i want to try to reuse existing 
tools.  i want to do what compilers do
[20:15] [yantar92 : MODERATOR]: ;;; peg.el --- Parsing Expression Grammars in 
Emacs Lisp  -*- lexical-binding:t -*-

[20:15] [Morgan : VIEWER]: a number of years ago i started making a peg parser 
in guile.  i find this stuff so confusing.  i've been on this road a long time 😜
[20:16] [kickingvegas : VIEWER]: gotta run; thanks!
[20:17] [zaimon : VIEWER]: thanks everyone
:end:

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode maintainer,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>

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