On Saturday 13 October 2018 10:01:53 theman whosoldtheworld wrote:

> So you're trying to make a laser reset ... a special type point to
> point .... that is a kind of scanner to linearize your axis
> particularly worn by age. Are we talking about a lathe right? 

Right.
> another 
> thing .... the CDS sensor how is it? .... the glass above it, the
> laser glass ... is clean?

I think its clear epoxy dipped, and clean, came from a 4 dollar yard 
stake light I demolished to get, so you have to know its the cheapest 
crap on the planet. :)

> ... your ohms vary according to the external 
> light,
which is consistant a 5000 lumen led thing on an overhead frame above the 
lathes bed and 10" to the rear.
> the cleaning of the surfaces and the projected shadows ... I 
> fear that the speed of data acquisition and its variability. ... for
> such small measures (0.025 mm) is your real enemy .... I usually know
> that we try to use triangulation to be less immune to environmental
> disturbances. So that in fact the use of a CDS sensor not divided into
> pixels

it has the usual serpentine pattern top conductor, so its not exactly a 
bulk device.

> and a laser that shoots in the center in a perpendicular way is 
> probably the least efficient configuration for the lowest amount of
> input data and for their low quality.

Agreed

> If you look at all the commercial zeroers use triangulation or laser
> with a very small spot (50um) ... actually now that I update my
> knowelge (with googling) for the greater the laser with micro spot ...
> this is because there are sensors with very small pixels and with many
> few points in the matrix (precisely 8-16-32).

I would much prefer to have a device like that, but this is semi-rural 
WV, at least 100 miles away from the nearest ipv6 address yet.

> then there is the problem of time ... if you used the red laser (a
> laser line not a dot)

Yes, exactly. Its a line of dots actually. I don't have a green laser, 
are they point sources?

> and a very poor webcam (to have less pixels to 
> filter

No, a DVM in ohms mode, which likely has a dual slope A/D in it with 
conversion time of many milliseconds is the display device. Some of the 
reading variations I see at low rpms are I believe related to the 
rotational alignment, or miss-alignment of the lasers line with the 
serpentine conductor pattern in the CDS cell. Perhaps a diffuser on the 
CDS cell would reduce that effect by distributing the light more evenly 
over the face of the cell? A plastic bb sized ball made of white 
translucent materiel stuck to the face of the CDS cell?  That will 
probably need my finding a a few hundred more millivolts to fire the 
laser with.
> .... the ideal would be 8-16 pixels for calculation time) you 
> would still have a lot of calculation to do so that a useful answer
> would get you with a minimum of 35ms of delay .... these are laws of
> physics and the laws of poor quality of computing processors in 2018
> .... Maybe in 10 years it will be better.
>
> I think for your purpose the better idea was using a very precise
> LVDT and put the measure of your axis in a table for make a good
> backslash linearization kinematics file ....

LVDT? If I have to buy it online, I might as well buy the best device for 
the job.

That table is the x-val-## inputs to a lincurve, 00 to 15. So theres 16 
points where I can set the correction spot on, with the correction at 
other distances being interpolated between those inputs. The y-val-## 
numbers are the amount of correction needed at that same x-val-## 
distance.

> Il giorno sab 13 ott 2018 alle ore 14:26 Gene Heskett
> <[email protected]>
>
> ha scritto:
> > On Saturday 13 October 2018 04:49:40 theman whosoldtheworld wrote:
> > > I'm sorry but my English is rubbish ... you're trying to measure
> > > and / or chase the ripple of a sheet metal for a laser system
> > > (measuring or cutting .... for example, like those used to cut
> > > gold ?)
> > >
> > > bkt
> >
> > Not quite that.
> >
> > I have a laser cartridge  made to look like a 38 caliber pistol
> > cartridge, with its back battery cap removed and about 22" od .375"
> > brass tubing threaded at 50 tpi screwed into that, with a teflon
> > plug in both ends, and a brass screw in each teflon plug, with a
> > wire between the screws. I've made a pair of spring contacts, one to
> > ride the OD of the tubing sticking out of the rear of the spindle,
> > and one to ride the screw head on the end. + terminal of a 1.7 volt
> > wall wart to the tubing, - to the screw. So the laser is running on
> > a stable supply but dimmer than if it was running on 3 volts and 15
> > USD worth of batteries. It is mounted in an 3/8" er20 collet in a
> > TTS toolholder, which in turn is in the 8"4jaw and the TTS holder
> > had been adjusted in the 4 jaw four about .0003" runout.
> >
> > When the laser is powered up along with the spindle, it eccentricity
> > at the tip of a dead center wobbles about 20 thou around the tip of
> > a dead center, and the tailstock has been adjusted to center that
> > wobble.
> >
> > With nothing in the beams path, a small CDS cell stuck in a gob of
> > modeling clay has been mounted in the tailstock barrel, and the clay
> > adjusted so the center of the spinning beam is on the center of the
> > CDS cell.  With the laser off, the CDS is subject to the room
> > lighting and has a R value of about 2.7k. With the laser on, its
> > about 250 ohms.
> >
> > A sheet metal piece to serve as knife edge is attached to the
> > toolpost so it can be adjusted with the X jog dial, which I can jog
> > the x in .0001" steps to block around half the beam, and the spindle
> > is run at 600 revs, so the lag of the CDS cell tends to average the
> > resistance reading.
> >
> > But it may be that the rev rate is too well synchronized to the
> > DVM's A/D rate, something I'll check today by running the spindle at
> > 625 revs to see if I can see the same reading wobble I can see at
> > 500 revs, its quite a bit of reading wobble, about 100 ohms pear to
> > peak at 500. I can go faster, but will need to loosen the front
> > spindle cap to control the heat as 1/2 hour at 600 gets it up to
> > smelling the hot 5w-20 oil. Its a bronze bearing and the spindle is
> > slightly tweaked from a fall-over that also destroyed the compound.
> > Its been replaced with a carved cast iron block the same height as
> > the compound, which of course isn't needed with the computer driving
> > the x at any angle to the y.
> >
> > I've very gently honed the high spots around the bed dings so they
> > are a thou or less. This leaves bed wear, 70 years of it, mostly
> > near the spindle, therefore I am using a point a few thou from
> > touching the tailstock, which is carrying 3 each, pieces of 3/8" SS
> > tubing up the right edge of the cross feed to get all the wireing
> > from a cable chain at the rear of the carriage, to all the stuff on
> > a new front apron replacing the old drive. The Z drive nut, the X
> > motor and the jog dials and their mode switchs are on this 1/2"
> > thick alu plate, bolted to the front of the carriage face.
> >
> > The intention is to measure the offset from a touched off to zero X
> > at the tailstock, measureing the offset needed to maintain the same
> > ohms from the CDS cell as the carriage is driven, carrying the
> > "knife edge" from the tailstock back to the side of the carriage
> > just ticking the chuck.  Find those offsets, list then on paper,
> > then edit into the points of a lincurve module, which will then
> > autocorrect well enough to turn a cylinder within a thou even if its
> > 4" in diameter and 2 feet long as long as its supported on both
> > ends.
> >
> > But everytime I move to the calibrated point at the tailstock, I
> > have to re-touchoff by as much a .001" so theres still a need for a
> > better means of averaging the CDS cell to get a stable R out of it.
> > Thats todays project, finding the lack of repeatability. Because
> > there is a bit over .001" backlash, I always get the 400 ohm setting
> > by pulling out, and driving it back in, which should reduce any
> > error from x drive backlash.
> >
> > Its possible the laser itself isn't well centered in its holder, and
> > further adjustments of the 4 jaw are needed to further reduce its
> > eccentricity at the target. With the bent spindle and refaced
> > backing plates, I might even have to resort to grinding the backing
> > plates, I refaced them only enough to cut 100% of its face, so there
> > could be some axial miss-alignment yet.  And thats just for
> > starters. :-)
> >
> > And that is what I am trying to do, calibrating a lincurve to make a
> > worn bed fairly straight again.

While at the same time, I am effectively aligning the bed to the head.

Thanks bkt.

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>


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