http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ -------------------------------------------------- Kris If I was running a test lab that issued reports and certificates like those you mention, I think I would want to find ANOTHER job PDQ! Just think what would happen if one of the lab's customers "said one thing and did another" by shipping blatently non-compliant and dangerous products based on the lab's OK!. Of course, if the manufacturer and the lab are outside the EU then they cannot be hit by EU criminal legislation, so that's all right then for them - but then think of the poor importer who has taken the responsibility for importing the equipment into the EU. I like to to refer to him as the "virtual manufacturer" as he takes on most of the legal responsibilities of the actual manufacturer but without much real control of the products he is bringing in. He would need a good lawyer and lots of liability insurance! Actually, I think that importers often need more help than manufacturers - they are generally less well educated in the legal requirements but take on most of the liabilities for only a small proportion of the rewards. Finally, I agree with you about the "impartiality" of some of the advice out there! The fact is that most of the basic good advice is already out there for free - the "trick" (if there is one!) is understanding and implementing the requirements, and then gathering, verifying and maintaining the appropriate evidence. That's why we are trying to assist specifically in this area, and to provide relevant impartial training. Regards John Allen ERA Technology Ltd
From: Carpentier Kristiaan [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 02 August 2004 16:35 To: John Allen; Brian O'Connell; peter merguerian; Dan Anchondo; [email protected] Subject: RE: IEC and the CB Scheme Hi John, I think there is a lot of "basic education" but some of this "basic education" that I have seen does not really line up with the impartial info that you mention in your guide. Many (ignorant) manufacturers, seeking for a "CE certification" of their products are more than happy if they are informed that the "CE certification report" they get gives them full access to the EU market. In most cases, these reports are provided with a hughe number of stamps and signatures and contain a "certificate" stating:: "Hereby, lab xxx confirms that product yyy complies with EU Directive zzz, allowing the application of the CE mark". If I were an (ignorant) manufacturer, I would be more than happy to get such statements in writing. It was hard for me to get such statements removed from testreports. The labs that issued the reports informed me that "I could not apply for the CE certification mark" if this text was removed..... More-over, many of these testreports are issued in countries where local product approvals are to be obtained by means of "certification" only and real test reports are of minor value, sometimes not even existing. Regards, Kris From: John Allen [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: maandag 2 augustus 2004 16:36 To: Carpentier Kristiaan; Brian O'Connell; peter merguerian; Dan Anchondo; [email protected] Subject: RE: IEC and the CB Scheme Kris, Re 2nd para of your message - I agree that there is considerable confusion and a lack of understanding in this area (likewise, that horribly misused term "CE approved".) Think there is room for a lot of "basic education" on the subject - and especially what the Technical Construction/Documentation File must contain, especially about the manufacturing control evidence side of the requirements. LVD Annex IV is a good guide - as summarised here http://www.era.co.uk/Docs/ECS/JA/CEMarkingDoCRequirements.pdf If most people understood that then they would not be so free with the statements they do make - and the files might then be of more use in the longterm. Regards John Allen, Technical Consultant EMC and Safety Engineering ERA Technology Ltd. Cleeve Road Leatherhead Surrey KT22 7SA UK Tel: +44-1372-367025 (Direct) +44-1372-367000 (Switchboard) Fax: +44-1372-367102 Please take a minute to visit my web pages at <http://www.era.co.uk/services/rcm.asp> http://www.era.co.uk/services/rcm.asp and the main ERA Website at http://www.era.co.uk From: Carpentier Kristiaan [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 02 August 2004 15:15 To: Brian O'Connell; peter merguerian; Dan Anchondo; [email protected] Subject: RE: IEC and the CB Scheme http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ -------------------------------------------------- Brain, Most testreports I read nowadays are 'CE testreports" or "CE certification reports". Taking a closer look to the content (for RTTE products), makes clear if it is a testreport for EMC, safety or Spectrum. I see many mails about "CE certification" and "CE Certification marks" and many manufacturers believe that their products can be "CE-certified" if there is a "CE certification report", irrespective of its content. Regards, Kris -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Brian O'Connell Sent: maandag 2 augustus 2004 15:26 To: peter merguerian; Dan Anchondo; [email protected] Subject: RE: IEC and the CB Scheme http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ -------------------------------------------------- What is a "CE Test Report" ? thanks, Brian -----Original Message----- From: peter merguerian [ mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 12:28 AM To: Dan Anchondo; [email protected] Subject: Re: IEC and the CB Scheme Hello Dan, No, a CB Test Report is not required to make a European CE Declaration. Typically for CE, the manufacturer gets his product tested in his own accredited laboratory or at a third party laboratory and declares compliance with all the applicable Directives. The CB Test Report is not only for power supplies. You can get a CB to many categories including but not limited to: Household Appliances IEC60335 , Lasers (IEC825), ITE (IEC60950), Laboratory Measurement and Test Equipment (IEC61010), etc. etc. A CB Test Report allows you to test the product at one NCB appointed by the IEC in a particular country (say TUV Rheinland of North America) such that the test results are accepted by another NCB in another country (such as SII in Israel). Remember, Test Results only are usually accepted. However, some NCBs such as TUV Rheinland of North America have excellent rapports with various test agencies in the world, such that not only the test results are accepted but also the construction. By the way, you can cover the power supply and product in the same CB Test Report. Why pay the expense of doing two reports? A CB Test Report is not much more expensive than doing just a CE Test Report. For IEC60950-1, there are 25 countries participating countries - however, there are other countries who either are not an IEC member or have missed being in the Technical Bulletin, but who still accept CB Test Reports. If you have any other questions regarding CE, CB, GS, cTUVus Listing/Recognition/Clasification, Wi-Fi, NEBS, Ergonomics, ISO9000, Machinery, Household Appliances, Audio/Video Appliances, Luminaires, Telecoms, Pressure Vessels, Medical, Telecoms, NOM (Mexico), CCC (China), S Mark (Argentina), GOST (Russia) etc., let me know either privately or via the emc-pstc list. Regards, Peter Merguerian ------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. IEEE PSES Main Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message send your e-mail to [email protected] Instructions for use of the list server: http://listserv.ieee.org/listserv/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: [email protected] Dave Heald: [email protected] For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: [email protected] Jim Bacher: [email protected] All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc _____________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by MCI's Internet Managed Scanning Services - powered by MessageLabs. For further information visit http://www.mci.com ------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. IEEE PSES Main Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message send your e-mail to [email protected] Instructions for use of the list server: http://listserv.ieee.org/listserv/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: [email protected] Dave Heald: [email protected] For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: [email protected] Jim Bacher: [email protected] All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc ********************************************************************** Copyright ERA Technology Ltd. 2004. (www.era.co.uk). All rights reserved. The information supplied in this Commercial Communication should be treated in confidence. 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For further information visit http://www.mci.com ------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. IEEE PSES Main Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message send your e-mail to [email protected] Instructions for use of the list server: http://listserv.ieee.org/listserv/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: [email protected] Dave Heald: [email protected] For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: [email protected] Jim Bacher: [email protected] All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
