I have one more thing to add. Dr. Herberman suggests that people use headsets while using their cell phone because radiation is bad for the head. In that case, where would you put the cell phone? Clip it to your belt? If the EM fields are bad for the head, can the fields be good for the organs in the body next to the belt? If not, how far should the cell phone be placed from the body? Is several inches good enough? Would several inches actually make a big enough difference if the cell is putting out more than 1W? Maybe if I just hold the cell phone up-side-down next to my body while I stand right-side-up everything will be OK, since the fields from my body will cancel the fields from the cell phone, right? Does the word ‘voodoo’ come to mind?
George ________________________________ From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Tang, George Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 5:34 PM To: f...@dctolight.net Cc: John Woodgate; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: Another Cancer Scare? Fred, First of all, I am not the one who is making un-supported and unproven claims about cell phone usage and cancer; that honor belongs to Dr. Ronald B. Herberman, director of the University of Pittsburgh Cancer Institute. Secondly, I have been saying all along that the determining factor for safety is power level and not a general claim against cell phone use. Third, I asserted my claim that high frequency radiation (in GHz) has less effects on controlling human body hormone production as compared to the power line frequency effects in controlling human hormones, and cancer cell growth seems to be related to the body hormone production (ornithine decarboxylase and Melatonin). Further, I suggested that power line generates MUCH stronger fields than the fields from cell phones – imagine holding a hair drier (1500W, 13A heater coil) directly to your head for 10 or 15 minutes compared to the mW (and mA) from the cell phone. What we have here is the low frequency (more effective control of hormone) high power comparing to the high frequency (less effective hormone control) low power fields. The good Dr. Herberman seems to be barking up the wrong tree. I am not at all saying that power line fields in residential areas cause cancer, since there are people who live under power line for the whole life time without having cancer. I am merely suggesting that when you increase the field strength by 1000 times in a bio-lab environment, cancer cells may grow at a higher rate. But we all understand that we do not live inside transformers. Everything taken to the extreme will cause problems. The human body is composed of 70% water, but if a person drinks a gallon of water per hour continuously, he or she will die within a few hours. I am not trying to cause panic. On the contrary, I am simply questioning the claims made by the good Dr. Herberman. George ________________________________ From: Fred Townsend [mailto:ftowns...@sbcglobal.net] Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 1:02 PM To: Tang, George Cc: John Woodgate; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: Another Cancer Scare? George, thank you for your citations. Someone once wrote, "If you want to understand what is going on, follow the money." When I Google your citations the ads from lawyers to join class action lawsuits on cell phones pop up. So far what I read doesn't pass the smell test. I have personally researched harmonics on power systems. They are not that common. They typically occur with 3 phase systems where switching power supplies are used which means computer centers and the like. Computer centers are a controlled environment where they try to keep the people away so they won't pollute the computers. Commercial power lines are almost always in conduit which means they are shielded as well. After all computer rooms are full of magnetic media. (You wouldn't want to damage the media would you?) You really have to work at finding low frequency harmonics that impinge on people. By definition harmonics are smaller than the fundamental which means if you start with a small fundamental the harmonics are going to be even smaller. It is common to increase the dosage to accelerate cancer testing so why not use strong fields to accelerate the test. This is easy to do in the lab but difficult to do if you are using observation data from real life. Of course if you are using real life data, it is no longer a controlled environment. There is good money to be made if you can claim to be an expert witness that has seen cancer cells caused by magnetic fields. It is not surprising then that people will stand up in court and perjure themselves. In court, experts can give opinion in place of facts which is something ordinary people can't do. In the case of juries isn't it interesting that people that know nothing about the subject at hand are given the final say. Fred Townsend DC to Light Tang, George wrote: John, You have provided very good info. My comment is that the fields used in the experiments are relatively weak, in the range of a few microT to 1800 microT, and the durations are relatively short (a few days). Researchers have found that when they increase the field strength up to 100 milli-G for months up to 1 year, the results show an increase in cancer cells growth. George From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of John Woodgate Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 11:39 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: Another Cancer Scare? In message <4caa0df84cab184eb09525a5938e5c744e98a...@cosmail02.lsi.com> <mailto:4caa0df84cab184eb09525a5938e5c744e98a...@cosmail02.lsi.com> , dated Fri, 25 Jul 2008, "Tang, George" <george.t...@lsi.com> <mailto:george.t...@lsi.com> writes: There has been some research published in the last few years about power line harmonics inducing cancer in the human body. These are fields in the kHz to hundreds of kHz and currents in the range of tens of amps to hundreds of amps. There has also been a very great deal more research published that finds no such effects. See, for example: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/medicine/powerlines-cancer-faq/ If there were hundreds of amps at hundreds of kHz circulating in any power distribution system, it would collapse due to system capacitor heating and vast over-voltages on system inductors. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk Either we are causing global warming, in which case we may be able to stop it, or natural variation is causing it, and we probably can't stop it. You choose! John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 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