Hi Folks, On the other hand, I have had 1 car out of 7 needing in-warranty repair No mobile phones going wrong [about 9 so far] (although my wife has had one fail) No notebooks fail, although one laptop from 5 failed (and the company went bust) All my coffee makers have lasted over a year and All my printers (4) have lasted for 3+ years Are the products sold in NL of worse quality than in the UK? So, to expand the question a little does EMC engineers performance change with age? For the better or for the worse? :-) Regards Tim
************************ Tim Haynes Electromagnetic Engineering Specialist SELEX Galileo, A Finmeccanica Company 300 Capability Green Luton LU1 3PG (Phone () +44 (0) 1582 886239 (Mob )) +44 (0) 7540629920 (Fax 7)+44 (0)1582 795863 (Email *) tim.hay...@selexgalileo.com www.selexgalileo.com P Please consider the environment before printing this email. There are 10 types of people in the world-those who understand binary and those who don't. J. Paxman ________________________________ From: ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen [mailto:g.grem...@cetest.nl] Sent: 21 June 2010 11:20 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] (EMC) Performance Changing With Age Of Product *** WARNING *** This message has originated outside your organisation, either from an external partner or the Global Internet. Keep this in mind if you answer this message. If I use your classification, and classify products according to the results I have to conclude that most consumer products fall into category 5. Many products did not even make it to the end of guarantee without return to store…a few (recent) examples: - Every car I had - Most Nokia phones I bought - All the notebooks I purchased (HP-ACER-COMPAQ) - Coffeemaker (Krups) - HP laser printers (most cartridge related / 1x software) And that is just the top of the iceberg ;<( I think that for consumer products you will have to make more classes between 4 and 5 to distinguish the level of rubbish they sell! Regards, Ing. Gert Gremmen g.grem...@cetest.nl <mailto:g.grem...@cetest.nl> www.cetest.nl Kiotoweg 363 3047 BG Rotterdam T 31(0)104152426 F 31(0)104154953 Before printing, think about the environment. Van: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] Namens Dward Verzonden: Saturday, June 19, 2010 11:55 PM Aan: k...@earthlink.net; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Onderwerp: RE: [PSES] EMC Performance Changing With Age Of Product Seems to be the old scenario of: 1 – know exactly what your device does, test it till it breaks, find out just what it can do and can’t do – expensive – but you end up with a superior product far above the average – a rock solid device. 2 – assume your product is OK, but test just a little more than the standards –costly but less expensive than 1, and you wind up with a product that generally works in most instances and has not too bad of a return rate – a pretty good device. 3 – do only exactly what the standard says, no more no less - inexpensive compared to 1 and 2 but prone to wander and works most of the time as long as no extremes or no hard use exists – a mid end ‘Best Buy’ product 4 – only do the absolute minimum in the standard and if you can get away with it, lean towards no test rather than test – a mediocre at best product with nothing special, super deal at the stores (probably because the store just want to get rid of them) 5 – find some way to get out of reasonable testing, possibly some fudge factoring involved in the way testing is explained – el cheapo dope deal almost guaranteed to break the second warranties run out. But that is just my way of looking at it.:) From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Cortland Richmond Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2010 1:05 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] EMC Performance Changing With Age Of Product Tuppence from my corner... Once upon at time at Wang Labs, we noticed emissions performance improved after transportation vibe tests. I attributed this to having scraped surface oxidation off mating surfaces of shielding chassis'. A reasonable inference could be made that over time oxides might build and degrade shielding. this could (and IMO should) inform those with input to mechanical design. Cortland Richmond KA5S ----- Original Message ----- From: Derek Walton <mailto:lfresea...@aol.com> To: Mark Schmidt <mailto:mschm...@xrite.com> Cc: ralph.mcdiar...@ca.schneider-electric.com; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Sent: 6/15/2010 4:55:22 PM Subject: Re: [PSES] EMC Performance Changing With Age Of Product Hi All, just throwing in my 10 cents from when I worked for an automotive component manufacturer. Contary to what a so called expert has written recently, we were required to test the stuffing out of out parts. Specifically: We tested 5 parts from a sampled lot of 60. Before we began the EMI testing, our 5 parts were sent through some of the environmental tests to simulate product lifetime. The goal was to age the parts.... The very first test we did was ESD, to wicked levels including the pins. This was to simulate being installed in dry climates with no protective measures. The after sales market was seen as the most severe requirements. Some of the ceramic caps we initially used showed ESD induced cracks and electromigration. Our tests included 200 /m testing up to 18 GHz. While this may not be truly representative of lifetime testing, it was recognizing that it was important. Cheers, Dere! k Walton L F Research - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. 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You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its contents to any other person. ******************************************************************** - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <emcp...@socal.rr.com> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com>
