Hi Monrad, What about creating a DoC with a timeline for the Directive followed? Something like: "This device complies with the essential requirements of EMC Directive 2004/108/EC until 20 April 2016. After 20 April 2016, this device complies with EMC Directive 2014/30/EU."
DoCs can be issued ahead of time without worrying about the exact moment a product enters the EU. Pat On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 8:34 AM, Monrad Monsen <monrad.mon...@oracle.com> wrote: > Hi Charlie, > You made an interesting statement. You said "I don’t have it formally, but > you can’t legally declare compliance with something that is not in force at > the time you sign it". You made a mistake by including the statement is "in > force". We do have a formal published Europa statement in both the EMC > Directive 2014/30/EU and the Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU that: "This > directive shall enter into force on the twentieth day following that of its > publication in the Official Journal of the European Union." (Emphasis on > "shall" is mine.) Both were published in the Official Journal on 29 March > 2014, so both are in force as of 18 April 2014. Europe wisely gave > manufacturers two years to transition to the new directives, so products may > continue to be sold in Europe with CE marks that only comply with the old > directives until 20 April 2016, but on 20 April 2016 the new directives > become mandatory. > > As we have seen on this chat group, you are not alone in your view. Some > people I highly respect (that group includes you) share your view. They > believe that Europe will only allow products having a DOC listing only the > old directives until 11:59pm, 19 April 2016; then someone from each company > must immediately sign new DOCs to maintain the product CE marks at precisely > midnight (or 12:00am) on 20 April 2016 (Wednesday). What is not clear is > which time zone should be used for signing this DOC, or if one must keep > re-signing a DOC again each hour of the European time zones. I make this > point because USA manufacturers may be eight hours behind Europe and miss a > whole day of imports and sales in Europe if we were to just use the date & > time of the manufacturer's time zone (the one signing the DOC). Because > this is so unreasonable, one person stated on this PSES chat that they had a > private conversation with an unnamed official that said that UK won't > enforce the Europe laws (the new directives) for the first year to provide > an unofficial transition period ... but that same official would not put > that into writing. Instead, I believe it makes more sense for Europe to > implement what is actually written in the directives which already provides > a reasonable two year transition period between the new directives going > into force (18 April 2014) and the old directives being repealed (20 April > 2016). > > Let me open up an additional debate issue. For the transition, I recommend > declaring to both the old and the new directives. These directives are > compatible (no conflicts), so your product can comply with both. I suggest > DOC wording similar to what is listed below: > - - - - - - - - - - - > This product complies with the requirements of the European Union directives > listed below: > 2014/35/EU (2006/95/EC) Low Voltage Directive > 2014/30/EU (2004/108/EC) EMC Directive > 2011/65/EU (2002/95/EC) Restriction of Hazardous Substances (RoHS) > Directive > - - - - - - - - - - - > > I have heard some say that one may not cite both old & new directives on the > same DOC, but I have never seen anything official from Europa that prohibits > this. > > Thanks. > Monrad > > > On 3/24/2015 7:44 AM, Charlie Blackham wrote: > > Monrad > > > > I should have just put the shall apply from 20 April 2016 into bold, and not > just the Annex. > > > >> Please provide an official European Union (EU) document that confirms that >> "Declarations against these new Directives cannot be issued until 20 April >> 2016 as they have no legal standing until then." > > > > I don’t have it formally, but you can’t legally declare compliance with > something that is not in force at the time you sign it and > http://ec.europa.eu/growth/sectors/electrical-engineering/directives/index_en.htm > states > > > > New LVD Directive 2014/35/EU > > As of 20 April 2016, Directive 2006/95/EC will be repealed by the new LVD > Directive 2014/35/EU. This directive is aligned to the New Legislative > Framework policy. Nevertheless, Directive 2014/35/EU will keep the same > scope and safety objectives as Directive 2006/95/EC. > > And > > > > New EMC Directive (2014/30/EU) > > In February 2014, the European Parliament and Council issued a new EMC > Directive aligned to the New Legislative Framework. This new Directive will > be applicable from 20 April 2016. > > > > The new Directives have an article on “repeal” of the old directive – a > similar clause is contained in 2011/65/EU which came into force in a > “planned way” on 2nd January 2013 > > > > Additionally, Lists of Harmonised Standards will not be published until > close to the date in April, and whilst they’re not mandatory, without them > there can be no “presumption of conformity” > > > > The main changes are to economic operators in the supply chain, and not to > manufacturers, unless their products fall into scope of the Radio Equipment > Directive and so move out of scope of EMC/LVD a little bit late in June > 2016. > > > > Regards > > Charlie > > > > > > From: Monrad Monsen [mailto:monrad.mon...@oracle.com] > Sent: 23 March 2015 22:31 > To: Charlie Blackham > Cc: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > Subject: Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and > Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU > > > > Hi Charlie, > Please note that Annex I for both Directives lists the essential > requirements. Annex I makes no mention of declarations of conformity > (DOCs). Again, the article addressing DOCs in each directive has not been > identified with a delayed application. Also, there is no essential > requirement in the old directives that are contradicted in the new > directives. Hence, a product declared compliant to the new directives is > automatically compliant with the old soon-to-be-repealed directives. > > By the way, updates to the essential requirements are minor and actually > provide more information. > > EMC Directive 2014/30/EU Annex I reduces the description of fixed > installation requirements to the first sentence of what was in the old > Directive 2004/108/EC Annex I section 2: "A fixed installation shall be > installed applying good engineering practices and respecting the information > on the intended use of its components, with a view to meeting the essential > requirements set out in point 1." The old Directive 2004/108/EC Annex I > section 2 also adds "Those good engineering practices shall be documented > and the documentation shall be held by the person(s) responsible at the > disposal of the relevant national authorities for inspection purposes for as > long as the fixed installation is in operation." This is really not > appropriate to be listed as an EMC essential requirement. The new EMC > Directive 2014/30/EU correctly moves this statement to the last paragraph of > Article 19 section 1 because Article 19 is a whole article discussing the > requirements unique to fixed installations. Please note that other > electrical equipment that are not fixed installations also have records > retention requirements, and those records retention requirements were never > listed in the essential requirements. > Low Voltage Directive 2014/30/EU Annex I removes from the essential > requirements one requirement that was in the old Directive 2006/95/EC Annex > I section 1(c): "The brand name or the trade mark should be clearly printed > on the electrical equipment or, where that is not possible, on the > packaging." However, the new Low Voltage Directive 2014/30/EU still > addresses this requirement but places this requirement in Article 6 section > 6: "Manufacturers shall indicate on the electrical equipment their name, > registered trade name or registered trade mark and the postal address at > which they can be contracted or, where that is not possible, on its > packaging or in a document accompanying the electrical equipment." > > > Again, if you comply with the new directives of 2014, then you also comply > with the old soon-to-be-repealed directives. > > Please provide an official European Union (EU) document that confirms that > "Declarations against these new Directives cannot be issued until 20 April > 2016 as they have no legal standing until then." > > Monrad > Note: All opinions written above are my own and are not necessarily those > of any company I work for. > > > > On 3/23/2015 3:50 PM, Charlie Blackham wrote: > > Monrad > > > > These directives cannot be used at the moment – the relevant detail is at > the end of the quoted articles (with my bold text) > > > > 2014/30/EU Article 46 > > Entry into force and application > > This Directive shall enter into force on the twentieth day following that of > its publication in the Official Journal of the European Union.EN 29.3.2014 > Official Journal of the European Union L 96/95 > > Article 1, Article 2, points (1) to (8) of Article 3(1), Article 3(2), > Article 5(2) and (3), Article 6, Article 13, Article 19(3) and Annex I shall > apply from 20 April 2016. > > > > 2014/35/EU Article 28 > > Entry into force > > This Directive shall enter into force on the twentieth day following that of > its publication in the Official Journal of the European Union. > > Article 1, the second paragraph of Article 3, Article 5, Article 13(2) and > (3) and Annexes I, V and VI shall apply from 20 April 2016. > > > > Declarations against these new Directives cannot be issued until 20 April > 2016 as they have no legal standing until then > > > > Regards > > Charlie > > > > From: Monrad Monsen [mailto:monrad.mon...@oracle.com] > Sent: 23 March 2015 21:25 > To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > Subject: Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and > Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU > > > > Hi John, > Where is it written that "Directives aren't valid until ALL member states > have implemented them"? > > ENTER INTO FORCE > I note that both the Low Voltage Directive and the EMC Directive clearly > states: "This directive shall enter into force on the twentieth day > following that of its publication in the Official Journal of the European > Union." (Emphasis on "shall" is mine.) See the citations below: > > Article 45 of the EMC Directive 2014/30/EU that was published in the > Official Journal on 29 March 2014. Accordingly, the EMC Directive > 2014/30/EU entered into force on 18 April 2014. Please also note that > Article 45 does not list Article 15 (EU declaration of conformity) as one of > the articles that has a delayed application. > Article 28 of the Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU that was published in the > Official Journal on 29 March 2014. Accordingly, the Low Voltage Directive > 2014/35/EU entered into force on 18 April 2014. Please also note that > Article 28 does not list Article 15 (EU declaration of conformity) as one of > the articles that has a delayed application. > > As written, it appears that the new directives are entered into force and > can be used on declarations of conformity (DOCs). > > REPEAL > Similarly, both directives state the older directives (2004/108/EC and > 2006/95/EC) are "repealed with effect from 20 April 2016, without prejudice > to the obligations of the Member States relating to the time limits for > transposition into national law and the dates of application set out" in the > new directives (2014/30/EU and 2014/35/EU). As a result, any products that > still relies on the old directives for CE compliance may not be imported and > sold after 20 April 2016. > > Fortunately, both new directives do state that any "references to the > repealed Directive shall be construed as references to this [new] Directive > and shall be read in accordance with the correlation table given" in the new > Directive. As a result, as long as the product still complies with the new > directive and just has documentation making outdated references to the old > directive. > > So ... if you are correct that EU directives are "aren't valid until ALL > member states have implemented them", I would like to know the official > document that contradicts the EU directives themselves. > > Thanks. > Monrad > > > > On 3/2/2015 12:50 PM, John Woodgate wrote: > > In message <000f424e.486384b410ff5...@rpqconsulting.com>, dated Mon, 2 Mar > 2015, "Ron Pickard (RPQ)" <rpick...@rpqconsulting.com> writes: > > > > As I believe as Mr. Woodgate pointed out earlier, these new directives have > no legal standing until at least one member state enacts them into their own > legal system. To my knowledge, that hasn't happened yet. Anyone have any > info on this? > > > There has been a new ruling on this from the Commission. One implementation > is NOT ENOUGH: the Directives aren't valid until ALL member states have > implemented them. > > I suppose this is because a member state could find a serious objection to > implementation, which would put everything back in the melting pot. > > > > > > > - > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. 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To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
