Scott
I think I need to apologise for the tone of my earlier email – a bit OTT w.r.t. yourself on reflection ! John Allen From: John Allen [mailto:john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk] Sent: 13 September 2015 08:51 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] RF Common Mode Immunity Test Question “Lazyboy” You may not have, and, as a licenced Amateur, I am sure you would not because you know that you should not, and that there are better and more challenging ways to talk to your faraway friends – but I don’t think that some CB operators are as “conscientious” J. John Allen W.London, UK From: Scott Douglas [mailto:sdouglas...@gmail.com] Sent: 12 September 2015 23:13 To: John Allen; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] RF Common Mode Immunity Test Question Well, I never hooked up a 1 kW linear amp to my 5 W CB radio to talk to South America. And woke the neighbors on Sunday morning so they could listen to me on their turned-off console radio receiver... So says Lazyboy KDT-8165 On 9/12/2015 12:37 PM, John Allen wrote: FWIW, 27MHz sounds more like a CB station rather than an “real” Amateur station which (IIRC) would be using the 28MHz band – and CB operators (especially in some countries! ) may use illegal amps (“boosters”) to raise the transmit power beyond the legal limits! John Allen W.London, UK From: dward [mailto:dw...@pctestlab.com] Sent: 12 September 2015 20:00 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] RF Common Mode Immunity Test Question I agree -an amateur could not and would not use a call sign other than his or her designated licensed call sign. No blue leader, no quacking duck, nothing but respective number licensed to him or her. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: "ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen" <g.grem...@cetest.nl> Date: 9/12/2015 11:25 AM (GMT-08:00) To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] RF Common Mode Immunity Test Question A Ham never can be a source of interference, by definition (if they respect their limits- in more than one way). To me an amateur is not a HAM, but that is a matter of language I suppose. My example showed a (spiced up) example of lack of immunity in a professional audio installation , that due pragmatic testing, too cables with average screening properties and a substantial power output in a "room" with may-i-say very specific acoustic properties, lead to an extremely interfering situation. Gert Gremmen Van: Ed Price [mailto:edpr...@cox.net] Verzonden: zaterdag 12 september 2015 20:09 Aan: ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen Onderwerp: RE: [PSES] RF Common Mode Immunity Test Question Gert: Allow me to fine tune your story for accuracy. In the late 1950's, the USA FCC re-allocated the 27 MHz region (called 11 meter band) from amateur use to a new "citizens" band. (I don't know how many other countries followed that example.) This was created from the existing amateur 10-meter band, making amateurs rather unhappy. This 11-meter Citizens Band eventually degenerated into unregulated technical and operational chaos. If you had a device exhibiting a susceptible response of a "blue angel calling a red devil" and not something like "WB6WSN calling..." then the source was not an amateur but an unregulated CB'er. Please, hams are sensitive about being the assumed source of interference. Ed Price WB6WSN Chula Vista, CA USA -----Original Message----- From: ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen [mailto:g.grem...@cetest.nl] Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2015 10:18 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] RF Common Mode Immunity Test Question This is a typical standards clause included in a standard by non-emc "experts". What is a metal enclosure, and when is it not enclosure ? Metalized plastic: is not metal but might be as good Painted metal: complies but may have substantial potential difference between parts If heavy interference exists, 4 braid connection points are not enough, and inferior braided coax and signal cables is all over the market. This is an example of economic drive "fast cheap & pragmatic testing" and this exemption clause is a recipe for problems in the field. I remember a customer of mine building PA systems for a church application ( = 55103-2) Final testing was ok, and the system worked like a charm. The first Sunday in real use, the vicar got an unexpected reply on its questions to the mighty when a local 27 MHz radio amateur switched on its transmitter and "preached" : "blue angel calling red devil ".... Gert Gremmen ce-test qualified testing bv -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk <mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk%0b%3cmailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk%3e%20> <mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk> ] Verzonden: vrijdag 11 september 2015 16:48 Aan: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Onderwerp: Re: [PSES] RF Common Mode Immunity Test Question In message <6165069ea399fe46b1a5148bcb1a75ebd...@ex-ukha-01.ad.s-a-m.com <mailto:6165069ea399fe46b1a5148bcb1a75ebd...@ex-ukha-01.ad.s-a-m.com%0b%3cmailto:6165069ea399fe46b1a5148bcb1a75ebd...@ex-ukha-01.ad.s-a-m.com> <mailto:6165069ea399fe46b1a5148bcb1a75ebd...@ex-ukha-01.ad.s-a-m.com> >, dated Fri, 11 Sep 2015, Robert Dunkerley <robert.dunker...@s-a-m.com <mailto:robert.dunker...@s-a-m.com> > writes: >Would this not imply that nearly all types of signal cables (most are >screened this way?) would be exempt from this test, or is my >understanding totally wrong? (probably the case!) Not all products have a metal case. Not all ports meet the definition of 'screened port'. Not all cables have braided screens/shields. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk <http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk> When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org <mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org%20%3cmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org> <mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org> > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html <http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ <http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/> can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ <http://www.ieee-pses.org/> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html <http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html> For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org <mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org%20%3cmailto:sdoug...@ieee.org> <mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org <mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org%20%3cmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org> <mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org> > For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org <mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org%20%3cmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> <mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com <mailto:dhe...@gmail.com%20%3cmailto:dhe...@gmail.com> <mailto:dhe...@gmail.com> > - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org <mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org%20%3cmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org> <mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org> > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html <http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ <http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/> can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ <http://www.ieee-pses.org/> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html <http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html> For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org <mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org%20%3cmailto:sdoug...@ieee.org> <mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org <mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org%20%3cmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org> <mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org> > For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org <mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org%20%3cmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> <mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com <mailto:dhe...@gmail.com%20%3cmailto:dhe...@gmail.com> <mailto:dhe...@gmail.com> > - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
