FWIW, I wasn't actually pointing to the financial sector, and/or the US ones in particular, because I have no particular expertise in that area - especially w.r.t. the US, but some of the UK & European banks were either complicit and/or just as bad/worse anyway!
What I actually said was "financial and other scandals" - which includes many other and different areas from fake or "non-compliant" materials /products (consumer electronics ring any bells?) to deliberate misuse of substandard materials in life changing/threatening applications (such as the breast plants made from normal industrial materials instead of specialist medical grade ones). Therefore, In that respect, I do agree that EMC compliance is, in the majority but certainly not all, of products/cases a relatively "low level" compliance issue by comparison. However, it is, and it should be, a sub-set of a company's legal and ethical approach to do no harm and improve the lot of its customers. Having worked for many (too many!) companies over the years, I have encountered some senior management "real cowboys" - and "walked away" in at least one case -, plus many middle managers and senior engineers, who did not care a s*** for making sure the products were as reasonably compliant as possible to whatever regs/stds applied. Unfortunately that mindset then influences those who work for them (and/or know no better), and that in turn can lead to many, and worse, things being done/not done. It was therefore a great relief to work for the "old HP" for a few years because of the "HP Way" approach to products and product compliance - and that certainly included EMI (no immunity requirements at that time) stds & regs. Unfortunately very few of the companies I worked for after that were as ethical or diligent. L John Allen W.London, UK From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] Sent: 17 January 2016 16:10 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Is your company doing enough to ensure adequate EMC complia nce? We are getting off-topic here, but I can't let this one go without comment. The "financial melt-down" in the USA back in 2008/2009 was initiated by the very US government which is now in a lily-white, holier-than-thou mode enforcing all sorts of rules-of-conduct to make sure, as Mr. Allen says, that this doesn't happen again. USG had been forcing banks into making mortgage loans that were not backed by adequate security. Meaning, they were legally forced to make loans to people who shouldn't have been qualified. They did this to avoid accusations of various sorts of discrimination that had become illegal. Faced with massive amount of bad debt, bankers attempted to off-load that bad debt by selling mortgage-backed securities, which were worthless, but people didn't know it. It was like a game of "Old Maid," with the holder of the "Old Maid" trying to dump it on someone else. The USG by forcing bankers to take on bad debt converted the banking industry from one fundamentally based on truth and integrity (as perceived by the public) into a group of con artists. But they became con-artists in response tot the government stimulus of forcing them to make bad loans. People refer to the bad actors in the banking/mortgage industry without referencing that it wasn't always like that, and it was the USG that transformed that industry from a reputable one into a disaster. Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 _____ From: John Allen <john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk> Reply-To: John Allen <john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk> Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2016 09:13:02 -0000 To: <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] Is your company doing enough to ensure adequate EMC complia nce? And I should have added that I, for one, am quite glad that "compliance" is now a far more widespread discipline than it used to be as it may mean that we get fewer financial and other scandals that might have been avoided if the relevant regs and rules had been followed and enforced over the last 10 years or so - they affected me, and many others like some of you guys. John Allen From: John Allen [mailto:john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk] Sent: 17 January 2016 08:28 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Is your company doing enough to ensure adequate EMC complia nce? Morning all from a slightly snowy Southern England Over the years I've received a number of approaches from financial services recruitment companies about jobs in that industry sector - and had to outline the Compliance Engineer role to them because they were not aware of there being compliance people outside their sector! John Allen W.London, UK From: Doug Powell [mailto:doug...@gmail.com] Sent: 17 January 2016 06:54 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Is your company doing enough to ensure adequate EMC complia nce? In generic terms Compliance is indeed nothing more than adherence to a set of rules. I once debated legal council at a company who wanted exclusive use of the term. I pointed out how this term is used in finance, medical, transportation, product safety, EMC and legal circles. Given a bit more time I'm certain I could come up with a list nearly as long as your arm. This one reason why I personally prefer the term Compliance Engineer. It is unique to this business sector. Among my peers, I like to be more specific and mention product safety engineer or EMC engineer. All the best, Doug Douglas E Powell doug...@gmail.com https://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01 From: Brian Gregory Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 11:24 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Reply To: Brian Gregory Subject: Re: [PSES] Is your company doing enough to ensure adequate EMC complia nce? Ah yes, I recall a conversation with a bright one from Garrad Hassan about a mutual customer. He was establishing their compliance with GH's established financial qualifications for an undisclosed analysis. I picked on the distinction rather quickly and had to clarify to him what compliance meant to me, representing an NRTL. Colorado Brian ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Scott Aldous <00000220f70c299a-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Is your company doing enough to ensure adequate EMC complia nce? Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2016 10:11:52 -0800 As is made somewhat more clear in this article <http://www.fcpablog.com/blog/2015/11/9/sec-we-protect-compliance-officers-e xcept-when-we-prosecute.html> <http://www.fcpablog.com/blog/2015/11/9/sec-we-protect-compliance-officers-e xcept-when-we-prosecute.html> (linked to by the original), this has nothing to do with technical product compliance but is about securities compliance <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Securities_regulation_in_the_United_States> . Sloppy use of the term "compliance" with no explanation of the specific meaning. Scott (am I the "other" Scott?) just made a similar point... I will post anyway. On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 9:52 AM, Brian Gregory <brian_greg...@netzero.net> wrote: If you read the article (and others) it can be read either way. The blog's purpose is to give Compliance Officers tools, reference information and background as to what is going on. That the SEC is getting involved in Compliance investigations indicates to me increased scrutiny of companies' compliance issues. As a technical issue, this appears to me to be bureaucratic overreach at the least, since SEC and DOJ aren't safety organizations like OSHA. I think out-of-compliance issues should be (1) safety based and (2) customer sourced. SEC or DOJ get involved when there's a user-related problem or clear malfeasance (altering of documentation, unsubstantiated claims, etc.), which are covered under existing laws. As I see IEC regulations leaning more towards risk management/aversion, I get the feeling that standards organizations are also contributing to this overreach by trying to solve problems, via regulation/standardization that haven't been proven yet to be problems in the actual marketplace of people, customers and products. If you've been involved in any STP's, it's hard to avoid the feeling that there are some making hay out of increased regulatory oversight, including many ways that help consultants more than end users. Colorado Brian ---------- Original Message ---------- From: "gdstuyvenb...@yahoo.com" <0000058ee1229c70-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Is your company doing enough to ensure adequate EMC compliance? Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2016 13:29:10 +0000 Ken, wasn't suggesting increased government regulation, rather useful tips for our own consideration. Gary Stuyvenberg Thompson Consulting _____ From: Ken Javor <ken.ja...@emccompliance.com> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 10:59 PM Subject: Re: [PSES] Is your company doing enough to ensure adequate EMC compliance? "Last week was a good one for the compliance profession. " Could not disagree more. This is big brother, or socialism, call it what you will. A product either meets requirements, or it doesn't. The gov't instructing the private sector on how to get there is worse than superfluous, it's damaging. Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 <tel:%28256%29%20650-5261> _____ From: "gdstuyvenb...@yahoo.com" <0000058ee1229c70-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org> Reply-To: "gdstuyvenb...@yahoo.com" <gdstuyvenb...@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2016 03:33:42 +0000 To: <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [PSES] Is your company doing enough to ensure adequate EMC compliance? As this is a board that deals primarily with regulatory/compliance issues, I thought the following article was pertinent to our cause and deserving of consideration. FEDS AS THOUGHT LEADERS: A BACK-DOOR COMPLIANCE DEFENSE TAKES SHAPE <http://www.fcpablog.com/blog/2015/11/11/feds-as-thought-leaders-a-back-door -compliance-defense-takes.html> <http://www.fcpablog.com/blog/2015/11/11/feds-as-thought-leaders-a-back-door -compliance-defense-takes.html> By Richard L. Cassin <http://www.fcpablog.com/blog/author/fcpablog> <http://www.fcpablog.com/blog/author/fcpablog> | Wednesday, November 11, 2015 at 7:53AM Assistant Attorney General Leslie Caldwell said last week the DOJ's hiring of a compliance counsel doesn't mean the agency is "moving toward recognizing or instituting a 'compliance defense.'" What then will the compliance counsel do? "She will help us evaluate each compliance program on a case-by-case basis -- just as the department always has -- but with a more expert eye," AAG Caldwell told a gethering <http://www.justice.gov/opa/speech/assistant-attorney-general-leslie-r-caldw ell-speaks-sifma-compliance-and-legal-society> <http://www.justice.gov/opa/speech/assistant-attorney-general-leslie-r-caldw ell-speaks-sifma-compliance-and-legal-society> of compliance officers in New York. Caldwell, pictured above, then set out the factors the DOJ compliance counsel will assess: * Does the institution ensure that its directors and senior managers provide strong, explicit and visible support for its corporate compliance policies? * Do the people who are responsible for compliance have stature within the company? Do compliance teams get adequate funding and access to necessary resources? Of course, we won't expect that a smaller company has the same compliance resources as a Fortune-50 company. * Are the institution's compliance policies clear and in writing? Are they easily understood by employees? Are the policies translated into languages spoken by the company's employees? * Does the institution ensure that its compliance policies are effectively communicated to all employees? Are its written policies easy for employees to find? Do employees have repeated training, which should include direction regarding what to do or with whom to consult when issues arise? * Does the institution review its policies and practices to keep them up to date with evolving risks and circumstances? This is especially important if a U.S.-based entity acquires or merges with another business, especially a foreign one. * Are there mechanisms to enforce compliance policies? Those include both incentivizing good compliance and disciplining violations. Is discipline even handed? The department does not look favorably on situations in which low-level employees who may have engaged in misconduct are terminated, but the more senior people who either directed or deliberately turned a blind eye to the conduct suffer no consequences. Such action sends the wrong message -- to other employees, to the market and to the government -- about the institution's commitment to compliance. * Does the institution sensitize third parties like vendors, agents or consultants to the company's expectation that its partners are also serious about compliance? This means more than including boilerplate language in a contract. It means taking action -- including termination of a business relationship -- if a partner demonstrates a lack of respect for laws and policies. And that attitude toward partner compliance must exist regardless of geographic location. Two days after AAG Caldwell's talk in New York, Andrew Ceresney, head of the SEC's enforcement division, spoke to <http://www.fcpablog.com/blog/2015/11/9/sec-we-protect-compliance-officers-e xcept-when-we-prosecute.html> <http://www.fcpablog.com/blog/2015/11/9/sec-we-protect-compliance-officers-e xcept-when-we-prosecute.html> the National Society of Compliance Professionals at the group's annual event in DC. He started with a disclaimer: "[T]he views I express here today are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of the Commission or its staff." Then he said something every compliance officer and corporate director and C-suiter should hear and remember: "I have found that you can predict a lot about the likelihood of an enforcement action by asking a few simple questions about the role of the company's compliance department in the firm." Here are those "simple" questions: * Are compliance personnel included in critical meetings? * Are their views typically sought and followed? * Do compliance officers report to the CEO and have significant visibility with the board? * Is the compliance department viewed as an important partner in the business and not simply as a support function or a cost center? * Is compliance given the personnel and resources necessary to fully cover the entity's needs? "Far too often," Ceresney said, "the answer to these questions is no, and the absence of real compliance involvement in company deliberations can lead to compliance lapses, which, in turn, result in enforcement issues." (our emphasis) What Caldwell and Ceresney said last week doesn't equal a compliance defense for the FCPA. Congress hasn't changed the law, and courts haven't reinterpreted it. There's still no formal way for a defendant to plead a compliance defense under the FCPA, and respondeat superior (in all its unfairness <http://www.fcpablog.com/blog/2008/11/24/in-the-masters-defense.html> <http://www.fcpablog.com/blog/2008/11/24/in-the-masters-defense.html> ) is still alive and well. Yet what the enforcement top guns said last week will have an impact. They spoke publicly. They used plain English. They were specific in describing what the DOJ and SEC expect to see or not see when evaluating whether to bring an enforcement action. In house lawyers and outside counsel can measure the company's behavior against those words, and argue why an enforcement action isn't warranted. Public accountability of the DOJ and SEC and how they make decisions to bring FCPA enforcement actions just increased. Beyond that, Caldwell and Ceresney last week gave companies more reasons to have strong compliance programs. And they gave compliance officers more tools to work with, and more authority. Those are the same objectives of a compliance defense. Last week was a good one for the compliance profession. - See more at: http://www.fcpablog.com/blog/2015/11/11/feds-as-thought-leaders-a-back-door- compliance-defense-takes.html#sthash.vw9uPoS1.dpuf - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 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To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> -- Scott Aldous Compliance Engineer Google 650-253-1994 scottald...@google.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 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